Tom Secker 7/7 london bombings SCADS 2nd Conf – March 2012

See 19:39 timeline

“There’s a pattern here, and I think It’s highly likely that all three of these men: Martin [Abdullah] McDaid,  Mohammed Qayum Khan [a.k.a. Mohammed Quayyum Khan, a.k.a. 'Q'], Mohammed Junaid Babar [4 years in prison] were all working for the security services- either British or American “

Why not the so called “Israeli” intelligence services Tom?

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p.s. the youtube page with Tom’s performance had this horrible coincidence on the side menu.

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33 Responses to “Tom Secker 7/7 london bombings SCADS 2nd Conf – March 2012”


  1. 1 tom June 11, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Q: Why not the so called “Israeli” intelligence services Tom?
    A: Because none of Mcdaid, Q or Babar had any connections to the Israeli intelligence services. Israel is not secretly running everything, and there is no evidence of Israeli involvement in 7/7. Get over it.

  2. 2 lwtc247 June 11, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Do you mean because ‘tom’ isn’t aware of any connections to so called “Israel”.

    And their these men’s ‘handlers’ within the security services…. what connections do thy have tom? I think that’s a very appropriate question, given the way on presumes the security services work. And tell me tom, how many so called ‘Israeli’ moles permeate the security agencies tom?

    No evidence of Israeli involvement in 7/7? – you mean no connection to 7/7 that you choose to hold as important..

    Re: “Get over it.” – well I know of particular Tom who likes to believe it’s good to ask questions. Looks like it depends what questions are being asked. Is that right tom?

  3. 3 tom June 11, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Q. Do you mean because ‘tom’ isn’t aware of any connections to so called “Israel”.
    A. No, I don’t mean that. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, there are no such connections, however much you might like there to be.

    Q. And their these men’s ‘handlers’ within the security services…. what connections do thy have tom? I think that’s a very appropriate question, given the way on presumes the security services work. And tell me tom, how many so called ‘Israeli’ moles permeate the security agencies tom?
    A. I don’t know, and nor do you. This isn’t evidence of Israeli involvement, it is baseless suspicion, an argument from ignorance. It is utterly fallacious.

    Q. No evidence of Israeli involvement in 7/7? – you mean no connection to 7/7 that you choose to hold as important.
    A. You’ve had 7 years to come up with evidence against Israel, and have come up with none. Why do you still only focus on Israel? Because you are prejudiced. It is really very simple.

    Q. Re: “Get over it.” – well I know of particular Tom who likes to believe it’s good to ask questions. Looks like it depends what questions are being asked. Is that right tom?
    A. Yes, stupid questions being asked to try to perpetuate prejudice in lieu of any actual evidence are a waste of everybody’s time. If you have evidence against Israel, present it. If not, ask yourself why it is you feel the need to keep insinuating or just plain claiming that they were behind 7/7. I contend that it is because you are prejudiced.

  4. 4 lwtc247 June 11, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Nothing wrong with questioning tom (and I do appreciate your input, whoever you are). I wish I had more time to spend on this subject.

    I find it puzzling though, that some suggest the US-UK establishments are involved in 7/7 (+ 9-11) but lovely innocent little so called “Israel” isn’t. lovely little innocent Israel that sends hit squads to assassinate men in hotel rooms etc. One doesn’t have to look too far so she their record on all this isn’t quite as spotless as some would like to out.

    And quite to the contrary tom, the Israeli octopus has more power and influence than any normal person should feel comfortable with.

    As for questions, there are many many more.e.g. here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZZ5zGAWKE&feature=player_embedded

    Re: 7/7 suspects handlers. if perhaps none of us have any evidence of ties with any other foreign intelligence services, but I think it’s a good bet that there are indeed such ties and a fair few moles plus the usual stooges which we see a bit more readily in political circles such as the Fox Werritty Gould affair.

    Do you tom hold a prejudice against anything that connects to Israel to 7-7?

    In the mean time I’ll post these interesting video’s:

  5. 5 felix July 5, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    the recently released Kollerstrom / Farrell video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NZhl-ogoY
    seems to have raised hackles…

    http://conspiraloon.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/7-7-7-7-7-7-7-special.html

    i wonder why?
    Perhaps the answer lies here

    http://stefzucconi.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/comedy-infiltration.html

  6. 6 Michael Evans July 14, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    I hope this is not “off subject”. I have just watched the interview with James Corbett [lwtc247: It may be this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntas0tMxtTQ] about your film Crime and Prejudice. I wish to mention one thing that repeatedly came up in my mind during the whole time I watched it. I understood all of what you said about not getting stuck on one thing or idea. The fact that they, the government are doing what you say, with the “so called fake” videos etc., coupled with their Failure to have an independent enquiry only seems to lead in one direction. That they are hiding something!

    • 7 tom July 31, 2012 at 9:37 pm

      Hi Michael,

      The government are hiding lots of things, no doubt about that. I’ve never denied that there’s a huge cover-up in operation, because that much is obvious. I’m not really sure what you’re asking me here…

  7. 8 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Hi Michael.
    I doubt Tom Secker bothers to visit this site or any of the other “we don’t know who did it, but we know for a dead 101% fact Israel is innocent, so shut-up you anti-Smite holocaust denier nazi!” crowd

    You’re better off going to Tom’s website, which I think is: http://howardbealesnewshour.blogspot.com/ [sorry, apparently I'm wrong, it's http://www.investigatingtheterror.com/ ]

    P.S. do you like fudge?

    • 9 tom July 17, 2012 at 9:49 am

      No, my website is:

      http://www.investigatingtheterror.com/

      It’s very funny that you haven’t figured out that the ‘Tom’ commenting on this article is the same ‘Tom’ that the article is about. Had you simply clicked on the name ‘Tom’ it would have taken you to my site, which has my 7/7 films and my other research on it.

      That you haven’t done this and haven’t figured this out – well, I don’t want to insult you, but it doesn’t speak highly of your investigative skills. People can draw whatever conclusion they like about your allegations of Israeli involvement in light of this.

      • 10 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 10:27 am

        There you go Michael

        ‘Tom’ It’s very funny that you haven’t figured out that I may be a tad hesitant to instantly accept that someone posting as ‘Tom’ is actually the same ‘Tom’ featured in my post..

        Anyway, look, if you are Tom Secker, (& I’ll presume you are) I just want to say thanks for your efforts. I can easily comprehend the hard work and time gazumping nature of what you do. I really don’t want to be hostile. If you feel frustration at me being dogged on keeping ‘Israel’ in the picture, I’m sure you can imagine me being just as frustrated at what seems to me to be people trying to take ‘Israel’ out of the picture.

        And you can accept this or not (sadly I think it will b ‘not’) but I can only protest a sincerity on my behalf that ‘Israel’ has a case to answer. NK and TF’s latest video contain some threads which are substantial IMHO and in your ‘On the Edge’ interview you didn’t adequately address the Canary Wharf aspect of 7/7.

        “People can draw whatever conclusion they like about your allegations of Israeli involvement in light of this.” – Well you say this, but why do you either avoiding discussing it or appear to not take it seriously. There’s little point in asking the clergy of the J7T movement, as the very thought of it has already had them go running and screaming out of the building.

        P.S. If you would… Do you think it’s credible that there will be a false flag operation on the London Olympics?

        I do appreciate you much milder and reasoned manner on this issue. All the power to you. Sorry for getting your site wrong.

      • 11 Michael Evans July 21, 2012 at 11:51 pm

        Thanks for commenting on everything except the actual point I made, ( But not to me) or did you just fail to read what I wrote because you were busy concentrating on one thing?

      • 12 lwtc247 July 22, 2012 at 2:58 pm

        You addressed Tom about his video. He’s the best placed to answer your question. I simply tried to help you get an answer from him, and then took the chance to say some things to Tom. I’m sorry if any of that caused you a problem.

  8. 13 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Felix.
    Sadly, and I do mean ‘sadly’, I’ve lost most respect for the old ‘conspiraloons’ as doubtless they have with me (presumptious of me I know to propose they ever had any!). I’m tired of the nasty undertones of their piss-taking, utter inability to pencil ‘Israel’ in to anything, and insistance on ambiguity as well as their readiness to flick modern day yellow stars at people.

    IMHO the Kollerstrom / Farrell video is a bit cheesy, but I appreciate the effort and it does have merit. It could have been done very much the same but made a lot more classy (sadly ‘eye candy’ does has some sway) although once the few minutes in opening goes by, one can settle into it.

    And (as advised by the old conspiraloons) I have to wary of the false prophet Muad’dib, although I am able to resolve his false prophethood from the facts and asserted hypothesis he makes in RE2, and I appreciate his efforts on 7/7 too, even if I can accept his hypothesis as absolutes (but I do think they are strong ‘lines’)

    Actually, IMHO Stef’s accusations about Farell are really beneath him. Even if Farell is a ‘gatekeeper’ (which absolutely none of the conspiraloons could ever be, oh no!) and in the absence of any proof whatsoever, then you still have to give the benefit to any doubt that he may indeed be a genuine ‘convert to the ‘truther’ cause – the conspiraloons are hostile to people of faith in general which probably contribute quite a bit to their venom/ridicule). SZ hardly have a millimetre of ground to that possibility that Farell could possibly be genuine. Very poor show.

  9. 14 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 10:33 am

    There is some ‘Israel’ connections here: NK and TF latest 7/7 video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NZhl-ogoY

  10. 15 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Another puzzling thing…

    if these men in prison are British Agents, don’t you think their fate is just a tad beyond the job description??

    I doubt life would be cushty there, and I doubt even more they were whisked off to Hawaii under wraps.

  11. 16 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Yet more peculiarities I’d appreciate a comment on Tom….
    That Jaguar at Luton, surely it’s a gag?
    I simply cannot believe they would accidentally release footage of a real handler acting in such an obviously ‘suspicious’ manner. It’s a few steps beyond reason – to me at least.

    • 17 tom July 17, 2012 at 7:07 pm

      You’ve asked me a lot of questions there and made a lot of points so I’ll try to respond to all of them in one go.

      You could have simply clicked onto my website to realise who I was, but it is not really important. It just shows that you prefer speculation to information that’s right in front of you.

      I am not frustrated by your insistence on keeping Israel in the picture, I just think it is the sign of prejudice rather than evidence. You and Kollerstrom and the rest have had 7 years to come up with a case against Israel, and have so far come up with nothing but circumstantial evidence, the odd rumour in a newspaper, and accusations that those that point out the weaknesses of this evidence must somehow be trying to censor this view. I’m not trying to censor any view, but a lack of evidence is a lack of evidence, and sustaining a suspicion in face of a lack of evidence (and an ignorance of lots of other evidence) is prejudice. I’ve yet to come across someone who thinks Israel were behind 7/7 who does not conform to this exact template. Same weak evidence, same accusations against people who disagree, same pretence of being hard done by or somehow stifled as though you were brave to even be saying such things.

      I don’t care if you think the ‘threads’ in Farrell and Kollerstrom’s clown show are significant. Present me with some actual evidence, not suspicion and speculation.

      There is no Canary Wharf aspect to 7/7 – the whole notion of the police shooting people dead, on the street, in front of thousands of people, is ridiculous. Not to mention there isn’t even a single nameable witness you can point to who actually saw anything resembling this. If you felt I didn’t address it adequately when on On the Edge (I note your review casts some pretty wild aspersions) then so be it.

      I do not think there will be a false flag at the olympics. I think this is all a distraction, a sort of Operation Blackjack version 2.00

      I find your assertion that the Jaguar at Luton is a ‘gag’ to be quite daft. If it was so obvious then why wasn’t it spotted by Kollerstrom, the ‘Sheffield born Messiah’, ‘ex’ security service whistleblower version 1, ‘ex’ security service whistleblower version 2, Rory Ridley Duff, Richard Hall, or any of that lot? I’ll tell you why – it’s because most of that lot claimed the CCTV was fake, and therefore never looked at it in detail.

      Instead, it was spotted by a member of J7, the group which you clearly have some issue with (and perhaps this is the reason you are trivialising it). Why? Because they’ve busted their asses for years covering all the evidence, including the supposed Israeli connections, and they bothered to actually watch the CCTV, however boring a task that might be. I have also sat through that CCTV dozens of times, and noticed some other stuff which I am trying to figure out the significance of but which pertains the Jaguar.

      So no, I don’t think it is a gag, given that it took over five years to find it out. Whereas I do think Peter Power, the Halevi article, the rumours about warnings to/from the Israeli embassy, the John Loftus interview about Haroon Aswat – they are all likely ‘gags’, part of a smoke and mirrors campaign. None of them added up to anything, whereas the lines of inquiry I’ve pursued, whereby the alleged bombers were surrounded by probable British intelligence assets, has gradually been substantiated by a lot of evidence. Likewise, my hypothesis that the Peter Power exercise was a deliberate red herring (less so the other examples), predicted and encouraged through popular media programming, has also been backed up by a lot of evidence. I put as much of this in my second film as I could, given the constraints of trying to make it under two hours long.

      J7 have not just campaigned for an independent inquiry – they’ve basically carried one out themselves. They make all of their work available completely for free and have contributed more than any other person or group to the mission of investigating these attacks. The notion that they are a controlled opposition simply because they don’t buy into weak conspiracy theories (official or unofficial) is ridiculous. I note that their critics are quite happy to make this accusation while leeching off their original work…

      • 18 lwtc247 July 18, 2012 at 2:43 pm

        Your time’s appreciated. Thanks Tom.

        “I do not think there will be a false flag at the Olympics. I think this is all a distraction, a sort of Operation Blackjack version 2.00″ – We agree.

        On the Jag I will disagree with you. I find it as improbable that 7-7 may have state involvement BUT this possible handler ‘expose’ just luckily managed to sneak through, as I do about claims that black pepper and peroxide caused the explosions on 7-7. But truth is an animal not so clearly defined these days, so I’ll keep it on the back burner.

        Re: other 7-7 stuff:
        It’s not prejudice in that like you say about the history of British black ops etc, the so called ‘state’ of ‘Israel’ can be viewed very similarly. The very real concerns of ‘Israeli’ involvement in 9-11 – that they could do such a thing (thr not unknown to throw bombs at Jews and kill Jews too) and the means and ways they could be involved in 7-7 yield an automatic invitation to the suspects line up for me. On page 132 of Nafeez Ahmads book The London Bombings, Ahmad reports the AP story of the Israeli embassy calling Scotland Yard [correction for deleted section: "Israeli embassy getting a call from Scotland Yard"] warning about the bombings minutes before they happened. Ahmad also says Thomas L Preston of Preston Global, had his own sources in the intelligence community confirm it. (p132-3) and not only that, but Arutz Sheva (news) says Israeli Army Radio quoted ‘reliable sources’ confirming this. Again, that’s utterly deserving of a full and thorough investigation. Are you calling this circumstantial?

        As for ‘the odd rumour in a newspaper’ as you rather patronisingly put it, I wonder if you hold yourself to the same standard? From what I’ve seen of you Tom, I am forced to think that you don’t.

        “NK, MD, or that same branded ‘lot’ as you put it, “claimed the CCTV was fake” – really? All of it? Some of it? A little bit of it? So I can take it that you accepting the CCTV is genuine? If so I really wonder how you are so confident on that matter.

        “I’ve yet to come across someone who thinks Israel were behind 7/7 who does not conform to this exact template.” – I think it’s valid to ask are prejudiced against people who believe so called ‘Israel’ has a case to answer, leading you to ‘project’ the template (as you put it) only to soon ‘discover’ you’ve found such a template.

        “Same weak evidence” – so, without discussion and rigorous investigation or explanation, you consider p132 and p133 of Ahmads TLB’s weak. It seems to me your selective bubble-sort on this issue is what’s weak.

        “I don’t care if you think the ‘threads’ in Farrell and Kollerstrom’s clown show are significant.”

        So, in amongst the rather unnecessary taunts, you apply your filter. No prejudice there then!

        “J7 have not just campaigned for an independent inquiry – they’ve basically carried one out themselves.” – Just a touch inflated there Tom. Unless I’ve missed them quizzing the witnesses, the police, the emergency services, head of the intelligence services and senior officers, the TATP/C4/black pepper explosives experts, the forensic analysts and the Israeli’s involved with the warning minutes before the bomb went off.

        As for leeching, you’ve kinda got that bit mixed up. I’ve heard NK reference J7T numerous times and praise them, but do make the leeching comment to, say, Bridget next time you meet her, especially when she spuriously forgets to credit NK for his initial investigations into the infamous trains times that weren’t.

        J7T have I think advanced the cause for justice, albeit them getting rather ‘lost’ in their own gritty ambiguity. I hope their dormancy will end soon.

        “The notion that they [the July 7th Tuth(TM) movement] are a controlled opposition ” – your words.

    • 19 tom July 18, 2012 at 10:40 pm

      Of course, the Jaguar could be a red herring, even a deliberate one, but I think a close analysis of the CCTV shows that it isn’t.

      Regarding Israel, your argument is absurd. Because people suspect Israel were involved in 9/11, there is therefore a history of Israel being involved in such things. I am not in any way blind to the Mossad’s practice of high-level assassinations, but I’ve not come across any great history of them carrying out large scale false flag terrorist attacks in Western Europe or the US. That’s what we’re actually talking about here, not whether people have had suspicions about Israeli involvement in things for a long time.

      By contrast, the British military and intelligence agencies clearly had an awful lot to do with the IRA, who were largely funded from the US (note: not Israel). Likewise, MI6 and the CIA basically founded Gladio (note: not Israel). The British carried out false flag sabotage attacks on British soil, to be blamed on the Germans, during WW2 (note: not Israel, because they didn’t even exist back then). The British secret police, along with the Russian and French equivalents, infiltrated the international anarchist movement in the decades before and between the world wars (note: not Israel, because they didn’t even exist back then). The CIA/MI6 used false flags attacks and black propaganda against Iran when they overthrew Mossadeq (note: not Israel). The US military and CIA planned and carried out dozens of false flag ops and similar against Cuba as part of Operation Zapata and Operation Mongoose, including Northwoods (note: not Israel). The 1998 East African embassy bombings were largely masterminded and facilitated by Ali Mohamed, who worked for the CIA, FBI and was in the US Special Forces (note: not the Mossad). He also trained most if not all of the major players in the 1993 WTC bombing. Junaid Babar has no know connection to Israel. McDaid has no known connection to Israel.

      So, to the ‘evidence’ presented in favour of the Israeli involvement in 7/7 hypothesis. You cite Ahmed’s book, which was rushed out pretty quickly after the attacks and is basically a summary of what had appeared in the media coverage on and after 7/7, with some of the important threads drawn out explicitly. I’m saying we’ve had another six years to go at this case, and in that time far more evidence has become available implicating the British and to a certain extent American intelligence agencies than the Israeli intelligence agencies. Specifically, the reported warning was not FROM the Israeli embassy TO the British police but the other way round. That’s an elementary mistake you’re making. Also, it was officially denied at the police press conference that day. The only sources saying that there was such a warning were anonymous. In any case, a warning TO the Israelis does not in any way imply Israeli involvement in the attacks. The very fact that this was a story put out based on anonymous sources very much suggests to me a smoke and mirrors campaign. In evidential terms it is a rumour.

      If you have an example of me using a rumour in a newspaper as a central source or key evidence in an argument then please present it. My primary sources are mostly intelligence agency records and court files, which are a damn sight more solid that a rumour that has been officially denied that you’ve categorically misunderstood.

      To accuse me of prejudice, given the laughable nature of your arguments about Israel, is absurd.

      I am not trying to taunt you – I think my view of the Farrell/Kollerstrom video is entirely in keeping with Tony Farrell’s own words to me that it wasn’t meant to be taken particularly seriously, and that it is based on a comic play. If you want to take it seriously even when the guy who wrote it said that it isn’t really meant to be taken seriously then, well, that’s up to you.

      J7 have quizzed the police and other authorities through dozens of FOIA requests – the only tool really open to them to ask those questions. They have brought some witness testimony to light that would not otherwise have been available, and they made lengthy submissions to the inquests, and the lawyers involved. I don’t think it is at all inflated, given that they are a group with basically no money and no recognised power to compel answers, to say that they’ve conducted an independent inquiry. Certainly, they have done that more than any other person or group, including myself (who has worked his ass off on this case for several years).

      Even if you acknowledge someone else’s research, if you’re just copying it and adapting it to try to fit your desired story, that’s still leeching. To do this while publicly and privately accusing the people whose research you’re using of being plants, agents, a controlled opposition, seems to me the height of intellectual dishonesty. Perhaps you feel differently.

      If J7 were so averse to alternative narratives then they wouldn’t have discussed several in a massive article on their website. They also would not have endured my frequent badgering of them for information to help me pursue my lines of inquiry. They are just averse to people making allegations based on rumours in newspapers, as am I. And that applies, whoever is making those flimsy allegations. A badly constructed alternative narrative is still badly constructed. Just because it’s an alternative narrative doesn’t mean it should be taken seriously. Evidence is what matters.

      • 20 lwtc247 July 19, 2012 at 3:47 pm

        Tom I was wondering why you corrected me by saying what I already knew, only to realise that indeed I wrote the sequence of Scotland Yard (SY) and the so called ‘Israeli embassy’ the wrong way around. My bad. I’ll edit the comment (but leaving the initial error there) after this. I gasped when I realised what I did.

        How or what kind “close analysis of the CCTV” shows that th Jag isn’t red herring?

        When a suspected criminal is being investigated or is on trial, isn’t their past history often taken into account? So that there are questions about ‘Israel’ and 9-11 doesn’t make any suggestion of involvement absurd at all.

        9-11 was a much greater crime than 7-7, and 9-11 had far more serious – yet in some ways similar – consequences to 7-7. To create convenient borders on behalf of so called ‘Israel’, across which ‘Israel’ will absolutely refuse to carry out despicable acts, is plainly very silly indeed. To be consistent, no doubt on January 2010 when news of the Al-Mabhouh assassination and ‘Israels’ suspected involvement was breaking, you would have protested it’s unlikeness given so called ‘Israel’ had never to your knowledge done black-ops in Dubai before.

        “I’ve not come across any great history of them carrying out large scale false flag terrorist attacks in Western Europe or the US.” What investigations into false flag terrorist conducted by Israel/Zionist fanatics in Europe or th US have you made to make you conclude such a thing? and what do you mean by ‘great history’ as opposed to just history? Actually, from what you have just said, “”I’ve not come across any great history of them carrying out large scale false flag terrorist attacks in Western Europe or the US.” you have just exonerated ‘Israel’ from 9-11, or/and, you do not think it was a ‘great(significant)’ part of history. Of the two distinct possibilities, it seems you are indeed whitewashing ‘Israel’ from involvement in 9-11 because nobody could be so idiotic as to believe 9-11 is not historically significant.

        I am quite aware of Gladio, thanks.

        You will probably disagree but I conclude that many things the US has done, and is doing, as very often for the benefit of ‘Israel’, and not always by happenstance. This is even more true of the UK.

        The seeds, plans and and actions pertaining to the sadly-soon-to-be so called ‘state of Israel’, were certainly there during WW2. To only force oneself to begin to contemplate/discuss ‘Israel’ after May ’48, matter from a vacuum like, deserves scorn.

        It wouldn’t be impossible to come up a bunch of Israeli despicable and covert acts, so what you quite hop to achive by pointing out British/Russian and USan black-ops only proves British/Russian and USans have conducted black-ops. It doesn’t cleanse Zionists/’Israel’ of anything.

        You call Nafeez Ahmad’s book ‘rushed’. The use of such a word implies attention to detail and information in general might have been compromised. Unless you were involved in its writing and publication you cannot possibly fling out that word in the casual manner you did. It could be construed as an attempt to try and diminish it’s content on this issue).

        Back to the SY / ‘Isreal’ embassy bit. The point that the warning constitutes advanced knowledge has not gained focus. The bombing was forewarned of (despite you wanting to attribute to to a single story rumour – something you and a tendency to do when ‘Israel’ is in the spotlight) and SY (obviously)urgently contacted the ‘Israeli’ embassy, yet there are no reports of any other embassy’s being contacted or even the local police on the sites where the bombs went off, hence I will for now, take it that the foreknowledge of the bombing ties ‘Israel’ into the plot in at least some capacity. Given that it appears ‘Israeli’ interests were NOT the target, then the caller would have been using the soon-bombs for ‘Israeli’ benefit. It’s not too long a step to suggest the impending bombings were being used for ‘Israeli’ advantage (the perceptual victim).

        And why contact SY? Why not just call the supposed Israeli embassy directly? It would have been much faster and more likely to safeguard the ‘paramount’ lives of the ‘Israelis’ and their interests if a direct call was made. By going to SY, the warning may not have gotten through.

        …but then again… remember, ‘Israeli’ interests were not actually going to be targeted. The caller was using the bombing for ‘Isralei’ benefit. Now who would do that?

        I’ll reiterate, If SY didn’t warn others, which it didn’t appear to have done, then obviously it puts ‘Israeli’ safety over the safety of others. It also shows Netenyahu and SY lied. Why lie? When lies are told in the aftermath of such a dispersible act, it immediately merits investigation.

        Of course, this can of worms is of course neatly avoided if it’s a single source rumour, isn’t it.

        Verint Systems and ICTS’s failures are suspicious too, especially given the possible attempt to cleave some mileage out if it for ‘Israel’ (c.f. warnings to ‘Israeli’ embassy).

        Efraim Halevi’s ‘crystal ball’ journalism piece for Jerusalem Post “Rules of Conflict for a World War” in 7/7/2005

        GROUNDS AGAIN FOR INCLUSION IN A DETAILED INVESTIGATION.

        I appreciate you putting your points forward. One or two of the J7T(TM) clergy just ended up saying that based on what I was asking, I must therefore believe in UFO’s, and ‘space newts’.

        The writer of NK and TF’s video said “it really wasn’t meant to be taken seriously” – really? Where did he say that? And even if he did say that, I seriously doubt such a stupid stone-hearted attitude is shared by those in-front of the camera.

        You seemed to suggest J7T(TM)’s investigations was a near par to an official independent inquiry – something they themselves call for. I take it J7T(TM) savour repetition then.

        Re: leeching.Bridgets leeching aside, NK never seems to stop short of praising the J7T(TM) gang so I seriously doubt he believes they are plants and agents etc.

        J7 alternative narratives are static and only put up there (I feel) for them and people like you to point to and say J7T isn’t averse to alternative narratives. I notice you don’t describe these as rushed or that a long period of time has passed since they were first constructed, neither is anything else club J7T(TM) have posted up over the years.

        And they are averse to alternative narratives, as you well know. Unvless hissing, spitting and cursing, numerous terse no-stone-unturned dismissals backd up with a wad of ad hominems towards other peoples saying alternative narratives are pointless wallowing in possible errors. Yet if any meat was put on their skeletal alternative narratives, they too would contain errors. Their reluctant skeletal alternative narratives seem increasingly like slight of hand.

        Believe it or not (and I’m pretty certain you won’t, coupled with the fact that I don’t attribute the Mumbai terror op to ‘Israel’, nor the Fukushima NPP disaster (a horribly ridiculous ‘thesis’ if ever there was one), isn’t likely to gain recognition by you as evidence of some sort of believer in evidence) but I am open to relegating ‘Israeli’ as prime-movers to the backburner, but so far the apologetics don’t convince me that a hard investigation into ‘Israel’ is very necessary indeed.

        Who did it? I feel very 99% comfortable with this as my main culprit list..

        1st) Primaily UK related parties with a significant degree of ‘Israel’ parties

        joint 1st) Primaily ‘Israel’ related parties with significant degrees of British interests.

        3rd) ‘dual loyal’ British / Israyhell parties

        4th) British, Israyhell and USan elements.

        Yours seems to be 1st) A ‘sectarian’ British fringe with possible USan involvement and ‘Israel’ is simply angelic.

  12. 21 felix July 17, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    I have only scratched the surface of 7/7 so don’t attack any ignorance on my part…but I do find some things “not quite right” about the blogs and forums.
    What is the point of J7? An inquiry – same old cover-up, perhaps a few more ludicrous stories to fit the narrative. And why the ad-hom attacks on Dib? As if he were reinforcing the official narrative… reminds me of those ideological fights among the far left.

    What I find missing around 7/7 is a forensic examination of the absurd witness stories, or analysis of the daft photos of the injured which look like some made-up Elstree studio film extras. How much was faked? Probably much of it. It’s a huge subject, and in this area of witnesses (alleged) I find the Kollerstrom book rather deficient. It needs one book just focussed on the 30 bus bomb. J7 is a good source, but it never seems to go anywhere.
    As a general rule, I turn off when anyone uses the term conspiracy theory. There are people who tell the truth, and those who disseminate, whether mind controlled, put under pressure by the state, or part of the conspiracy to hide the truth. If someone is exposing the lie, what’s the problem?

    • 22 lwtc247 July 18, 2012 at 2:56 pm

      Given there were to be exercises that morning (insert P Power quote) it would be utterly incredible if no footage of the exercises was taken that day. And IF the elements of the British establishment were involved that day, quite possibly via the exercise scenario, it is quite reasonable to imagine some ‘exercise’ video was shown.

      And I think the suggestions that the suicide videos were part of a training exercise video is miles stronger than any other explanation for them. That one thread has many many implications and ties up with the possibility that some kind of ‘video library / production crew’ would be involved, which would also compliment the possibility of fake (substitute/fraudulent/synthesised) ‘bombing’ footage.also.

      There is ONE TRUE story about 7/7. There HAS to be a logical, sequential pathway as to how it was planned and executed. Alternative narratives – although still being hypothesis (strong or weak are pointillistic in nature – unless your a pew polishing paladin of J7T(TM) movement that is, in which case all facts must remain in isolation and there WILL NEVER be a point at when all the facts can be piece together into a coherent and truthful description of that day. A truly unique method cum claim of investigation.

  13. 23 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    It’s my understanding that J7T (and they may not like me talking on their behalf) want an independent inquiry and one free from the shackles of inquiries act 2005. A truly independent inquiry should have no fear of leaving no stone unturned.

    Sadly, if one wants anything to change as a result of 7/7 instigation, it’s almost unavoidable that the state will have to involved at some point. The independent inquiry would practically force the govt to follow its recommendations…. well, in theory anyway!, but knowing this shit for govt we’ve had since memories begin, they would likely just ignore anything substantial (remember elements of the british establishment ARE involved in terrorism and treason], and really, how independent can an inquiry be?

    It’s rather predictable that the govt would make it look independent and end up issuing a whitewash – as it does without erratum these days. Then ‘truthers’ will be told “You’ve had your day, now shut-up”. All the govt has to do is make it look independent enough to pacify most people, and that’s only if there is ever enough pressure on the Brit govt to actually go ahead with the inquiry in the first place. But again, what choice is there?
    The BRussels tribunals and the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission don’t seem to be able to deliver their conclusions to the guilty parties because of lack of action by the state (although really, it’s the people believing the state should relieve them of their individual humanitarian responsibilities that’s the real reason why BuSh, bLiar and so on avoid justice)

    If the Neocons can get away with their rotting shit of official narrative of 9-11 then the Brit establishment can more than resist calls for an independent enquiry.

    My own opinion is that the cause of 7/7 is lost and will always be so UNLESS the Yanks wake up first and get 9-11 independently investigated. The chance of that is still pretty low, but higher than what is is in Britain over 7/7.

    Again, speaking on ‘behalf’ of J7T I kind of understand their criticism of Shayler and Muad’dib as the silly ‘messiah/prophet’ claims just make people laugh at the whole issue of 7-7. Why can’t they keep their fanciful claims to themselves for the benefit of the cause. I dilike the attacks though. That is just ugly, especially when they, like Co19 seem to use Zionist methods in doing so.

    Be fair on NK, he’s a one man soldier, J7T have a number in their congregation. and to me, it was NK’s investigation of the train times that sparked everything off, not that J7T could ever acknowledge NK’s pivotal role in the foundation of J7 studies. Quite unlike NK himself who often praises J7T for their work and he quotes them as a references.

    “J7 is a good source, but it never seems to go anywhere.” – Yip. I’ve said to them before about their fence-sitting but they won’t budge.

    That J7T deliberately stab would-be natural allies, shows gargantuan ego’s which cannot be tempered for the sake of truth, and it’s truth which is the ultimate loser.

  14. 24 lwtc247 July 17, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    P.S. felix, if you’ve never said anything anti-Zionist / anti-‘Israel’ you stand a chance of being able to join J7T. This may allow you to garner support for an investigation of the Bus and witnesses. Tom Secker is in contact with them so maybe you could send him an e-mail/comment to establish ties?
    Or you could try NK or Richard D Hall (rich planet TV – a bit too much UFOish for me), Kev Boyle?, Muda’db himself etc…
    Just suggestions for your consideration.

    • 25 felix July 19, 2012 at 5:45 pm

      It’s a bit off-putting. Bearing in mind Tom pointing me to the scores of FoI requests to the Met by J7, I am a bit troubled by that, since they are clearly and obtrusively working together on the FoIs and I cannot for the life of me fathom why the Met hasn’t deemed them vexatious, the standard shut out reason when people are getting near to the truth or are asking exactly the correct question. I do notice “information not held” answers, but that’s an easy cop-out by the cops.

      • 26 lwtc247 July 22, 2012 at 3:19 pm

        I would encourage you to persevere. Like all people/groups they have their flaws, but I’m sure you helping them would in some way, advance the case for justice. Make up for those that have been black-balled.

      • 27 lwtc247 July 31, 2012 at 7:01 pm

        And tossing away “Thomas L Preston – a former US Army counter-terrorism officer who now heads the corporate crisis prevention firm, Preston Global in Frankfort, Kentucky – confirmed the original AP report citing his own ‘sources in the intelligence community’ as “circumstantial evidence, the odd rumour in a newspaper” in regards to at least being a tad worthy of investigation w.r.t. one of the worst crimes in British soil for some time, is actually a gross failure of honesty.

  15. 28 tom July 31, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    I think it is a gross failure of basic intellect to take seriously a ‘former’ US Army intelligence officer who is lending credence to a rumour through anonymous sources. But let’s say I’m wrong and this obvious smoke and mirrors campaign isn’t an obvious smoke and mirrors campaign – where do you go with this information? How do you research further into such a story from a ‘former’ US Army intelligence officer who is citing anonymous sources?

    Beyond that, since you’ve made a personal attack on me, here’s one back: If such a source were saying something that you didn’t want to hear (e.g. that his anonymous sources confirmed that Muslims did 7/7) then you wouldn’t accept them as a valid source of information. That you not only accept them as a valid source when they tell you what you do want to hear, but also use this as a justification for attacking someone who doesn’t take them seriously is not just dishonest, and not just hypocritical, it is utter fuckwittery.

    Now, aside from your misunderstandings of media reports, and hogwash from anonymous sources fed through ‘former’ intel officers, and claims that because people suspect Israel of being behind 9/11 that constitutes some sort of historical precedent or evidence, do you actually have anything implicating Israel in 7/7? Anything that, y’know, provides something worthy of my time? Or should I give up on this exchange and go back to my reams of court transcripts and intelligence documents and continue working on my analysis based on those?

    • 29 lwtc247 July 31, 2012 at 10:55 pm

      ” where do you go with this information?” – Now if that question was asked of J7T(TM) they would throw a tantrum and start ranting about messiahs and space newts. Where you go with the information is (I guess) that you kind of investigate it, you know, like perhaps subpoena Preston and get him to divulge his sources. Expect full cooperation from your allies, the so called “Israeli’s”, and if they frustrate the passage of justice, you invoke a sliding scale of punitive measures (not that they deserve any such diplomatic recourse). You take the ‘sources’ sworn testimony and caution them that they are under instigation as possible aider and abettor’s of acts of terrorism against the UK. You compare notes, see if the story is consistent from a number of different angles, does it corroborate? You also get the phone records of that day and trace them if you really wished.that kind of stuff…. you know, at a guess of course.

      And remember despite your conscious attempts to project otherwise, the Preston dimension of “Israeli” pre-involvement is NOT isolated. You then have to follow up leads via AP, and so on and so forth. A few interviews with Ehud Keinan wouldn’t go amiss either.

      “Beyond that, since you’ve made a personal attack on me, here’s one back: If such a source were saying something that you didn’t want to hear (e.g. that his anonymous sources confirmed that Muslims did 7/7) then you wouldn’t accept them as a valid source of information. That you not only accept them as a valid source when they tell you what you do want to hear, but also use this as a justification for attacking someone who doesn’t take them seriously is not just dishonest, and not just hypocritical, it is utter fuckwittery.” – and the achievement from your personal little synthesis complete with its auto-detonation is…?

      I’m not sure what you understand by Justice, or how you believe people should react in regards to acts of terror, or what constitutes reasonable basis for investigation in your single mind (apart from the apparent fact that if there are questions about so called Israel, then those questions become non-questions) but if, as is the case, there are ground for believing the men are involved, so they should be investigated. If there is sufficient proof they actually did it, then by all means let history record that they did it.

      Fact is, because of your blanket dismissal and attempts to portray anything involving ‘Israeli’ involvement as something which is isolated, baseless rumour, means you don’t deserve to be taken seriously on the matter and undermines your whole position.

      You mention “only accept them as a valid source when they tell you what you do want to hear” yet you are utterly unrestrained, accepting in fact and heartedly embrace ‘reports’ etc etc of Mi5 connections (whose origins will eventually be ‘classified’/anonymous) of McDaid, M Qayum Khan and M Babar.

      I’ll let you get back to your charting out the “Rachel North Conclusion”. The Jag should be rather helpful in that regard, and thankfully there isn’t too many letters in the word Israel, so you should run out of tippex too soon.

      Of course you won’t reject what they, British officials, tell you what you do want to hear! what you have been told about these men and totally reject from the outset anything to do with Israel. Of course, of course of course.

      You could prove me wrong, you could list what investigations you’ve made into the ‘Israeli’ dimension, and that ‘no stone left unturned’ work(!) would be…

      • 30 lwtc247 July 31, 2012 at 11:07 pm

        I’m sorry, Tom. Frustration got the better of me.
        It’s just that I seriously think
        there are good enough grounds for investigating
        “Israeli” connections with 7/7 BEFORE they are dismissed.

      • 31 tom August 1, 2012 at 6:02 pm

        The problem is – I don’t have the power of subpoena. How can I go any further with a media report from a person I don’t have access to? I can’t, really. Given that his sources are anonymous, and therefore might not even exist, how highly should I rank this in my priorities of investigation? I say ‘not very high’. Given the huge pile of evidence to consider regarding MI5 and possibly CIA/FBI complicity, I think my time is better spent working with that.

        Furthermore, let’s say we got Preston on the stand and he confirmed what his sources said – all he’s doing is echoing the AP report, which has the warning going TO the Israelis, not FROM the Israelis. Hence, Prestons’ report, even if it is true, does not imply Israeli complicity. If they were told by Scotland Yard, that would imply British state complicity, which is the angle I’m primarily researching anyway, and on which I have a lot more solid evidence than some anonymous source of some ‘former’ intel dude.

        Can you see why I think this sort of source is a waste of time that doesn’t in any way imply that Israel were behind the attacks? Can you see, therefore, why I think that people such as yourself who harp on about Israel on the basis of such sources (which they’ve misinterpreted) are simply prejudiced, desperate to find some Israeli connection not because that’s where the evidence leads but because that’s what they want to believe?

        Can you see, therefore, why you insulting me, accusing me of ‘dismissing evidence’ is a bit of a hypocritical, moronic joke? I’m not saying ‘all questions about Israel are forbidden’ and neither are J7, but both them and I get accused of covering something up simply because we don’t take misinterpreted, anonymously-sourced media reports to be significant evidence of anything. It’s pathetic, and again speaks to the prejudice of those making the accusations, including yourself.

        I do not ‘heartily embrace’ reports about McDaid, Q and Babar. I took the time to find out everything I could about them, and bothered to read the hundreds of pages of primary source intelligence agency and court documents that are available. As I keep saying, my views aren’t based on anything as flimsy as a rumour in a newspaper (which is what an anonymously sourced story is). My standards of evidence are higher than that, and just because my investigation has taken me away from your desired culprit, and just because I employ much higher standards of evidence than you does not give you the right to insult me or make accusations against me (or J7, for that matter).

        Like I keep saying, if you have some evidence (not rumours in newspapers) then present it. Otherwise, accept that this Israeli obsession of yours is not based on evidence, and that only really leaves one option…

  16. 32 evilvonscarry September 17, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    Glad to see others bringing Gladio to light, some even miss the Otto Skorzeny connection via the Paladin Group of MC Inc in Spain. Cheers- EvS

    http://evilvonscarry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/operation-gladio-2.html

  17. 33 lwtc247 November 4, 2012 at 8:10 am

    Talk was for years that Abu Hamzah worked for the british Intelligence services. Guess that’s why the UK extradited him with assistance by queen Elizabeth calling him evil,

    This thread is related to the imposter reincarnation ‘state’ called ‘Israel’ (Zion even thieved the ancient name) and 7/7.

    I’ve just seen the Interview between Annie Machon and Paul Jay (of http://therealnews.com Published date: October 31, 2012) who says Mi5 had documented evidence of the innocence of Jawad Botmeh and Samar Alami who were convicted of the bombing of the Israeli bombing on 26 July 1994. Two bombs went off that day and numerous people were injured.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/london-bomb-blitz-on-israel-1am-today-second-car-blast-hits-jewish-charity-office-after-yesterdays-attack-on-embassy-1416409.html

    Asked why Mi5 had evidence but let them be convicted, Machon reveals that it was Mi5’s assessment that it was Mossad who carried out a controlled explosion outside their London embassy in order to increase tehir security around all their interests in London and also to frame two successful Palestinian innocent people

    The interview is interesting for a number of reasons. It shows the did NOT go against an ‘Israeli’ false-flag act of terrorism on British soil. The lives of two innocent men were destroyed as well as the lives of their loved ones due to Mi5 not showing any shred of moral or proper principles of justice.

    It also showed (especially via the Libyan bombing) that rogue elements within the intelligence services are (sometimes) working to their own agenda and volition,

    Therefore it is very reasonable to believe there is a Zionist sympathising group or groups within the British intelligence services, not loyal to the UK or justice but to the Israeli agenda.

    It also shows no investigation, prosecution or punitive measures will befall the agents of Zion who are above British law.

    It shows ‘Israel’ has the network and expertise whereby it can create assemble, plant and detonate bombs on British soil.

    So, Yet again… there are very strong grounds to make a strenuous independent investigation of ‘Israels’ role in 7/7

    There is a transcript of the interview here: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32923.htm


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