Ist der Papst ein übender Christ?


Ist der Papst ein übender Christ?

Gods representative on earth (who is surprisingly frosty towards Gods own religion known as Islam) has warned of materialism this Christmas.

JP II used to speak out against materialism too. But the wealth of the Christian church is well known.

Isn’t it a bit ‘rich’ of the Pope to be saying these things? How many homeless people can shelter in churches at night?


1) Pope warns over materialism

2) The Vatican’s Wealth,9171,833509,00.html 


7 Responses to “Ist der Papst ein übender Christ?”

  1. 1 StefZ December 12, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    Years ago, when I was still at Catholic secondary school, I asked a visiting priest from Brazil (a very decent man as far as I could tell) how could the Church justify its enormous wealth? Wouldn’t Christ have taken all that wealth and used it to help people in need? Not knowing about the Vatican’s huge stock market holdings at the time, I quoted the vessels used in mass which are often made from gold and sometimes encrusted with precious stones as an example

    And his answer was…

    Gold doesn’t rust or corrode so, in the long run, it works out as being more cost effective than using cheaper metals

    The Catholic Church is a business, pure and simple. However, contrary to popular opinion it is not entirely staffed by paedophiles and hypocrites, no more than the Boy Scouts. But maybe people on the outside would have a lot more respect for it if a few more of the people on the inside did a little revision on the teachings of the guy they’re supposed to be following

  2. 2 Tony December 12, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    If you wanted to say “Is the pope a practicing Christian?” you should say “Ist der Papst ein praktizierender Christ?”. “übender” is “practicing” in the sense of “to try, to improve”.

    Anyway, the fact that the Vatican is older then the Mafia should give you a clue…

  3. 3 lwtc247 December 12, 2007 at 6:48 pm

    Danke Tony for the suggestion, although it seems both words have some validity as to what I am asking here.

    “Vatican is older then the Mafia should give you a clue…” – *chorkle*, but actually I feel saddened about it.

    I believe in God (you may have noticed) and to me, worship of God is beautiful, the exact flavour is not the most important thing as I’ve seen many times that believers in God, share so many commonalities that really, the differences are actually rather trivial (It’s just a pity that this is often forgotton). So when I see “The Church” doing things which to me, seem to undermine its principles it leaves me feeling really sad.

    w.r.t what Stef said, it seems like the chap just pumped out an answer for the sake of giving an answer rather than trying to impart wisdom unto the enquirer either that or the priest was unawares of the properties of polymers, wood or non-ferrous materils.

    And I feel very sorry for the Christians who quite rightly are beconing more vocal in their cries that Christ is being taken out of Christmas. It does not matter what issues I have with the Christian church, because it simply adds to the erosion of the people from God.

    Telling kids to quieten down and stop others from wearing crosses and so forth. It’s madness. Remember the “Winterval” lobbox?

  4. 4 [eter January 24, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    the church cannot, should not be poor because it has a mission. Mary Magdalen washed Christs feet with her hair and extremly luxurious perfume. Christ thought it fitting. Judas thought it was hypocritical. We give the best to God.We must give the best from ourselves and our material world that we live in, which affects us. If you are against a rich church you are either greedy, selfish, anti-catholic, or a communist.

  5. 5 lwtc247 January 25, 2008 at 1:18 am

    Hi Peter and thanks for your interesting comments.

    I am against a rich church but I really thing the descriptions “greedy, selfish, anti-catholic, or a communist” are not applicable to me. (not that a greedy or selfish person would ever say otherwise I guess)

    I think it’s important to draw a distinction here, the different kinds of richness, which at face value, may be good for the Church, and that is rich in terms of large influx of monies (as a near guarntee).

    the kind of richness I dislike is that the EXCESS is lying in a bank somewhere collecting usury (forbidden by God) and not being put to use. I would say that is greedy and selfish.

    The Church by my opinion should never have excess funds. ALL such funds should go to help their followers by say providing food, clothing, accommodation, intrest free loans for enterprize such as farming and so forth, and maybe even helping people out of debt.

    Why should someone be sleeping on the street with a hungry belly at risk of freezing to death becasue the Church wants excess funds to be stored in a fraudulent institution such as a bank?

  6. 6 Pete July 19, 2008 at 3:38 am

    I am not going to defend views of the catholic church or its practices of amassing fantastic wealth throughout the ages, but what I will do is question the practices of islam.
    According to the belief of the Kings of Saudi Arabia and Islam, the reigning king is what is known as the “Custodian of the two holy mosques” This means that it is his sacred duty as king of Arabia to preserve the integrity and scantity of the Mosques at Mecca and Medina, the two most venerated sights in Islam.
    Now correct me if I am wrong, but isnt Saudi Arabia a country torn by poverty and racked with corruption since basically all the oil revenues end up in the royal coffers with the people seeing very little. And why stop at Saudi Arabia, why not look at subsaharan Africa, home to a massive population of impoverished muslisms. Why is the King of Saudi Arabia not carrying them as well?
    The point I am trying to make is that Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and all the other major faiths of the world are simply that…faiths of THE WORLD. They are perpetuated by men, and supposedly guided by God, so don’t go calling the Kettle black when every faith is just as guilty as the next.

  7. 7 lwtc247 July 19, 2008 at 8:48 am

    “what I will do is question the practices of islam.” – Fair enough.

    “isnt Saudi Arabia a country torn by poverty and racked with corruption” – The only correction is the ‘torn’ bit. It’s got poverty & its got corruption I’d agree. However to describe it as a tear as if the country is visible split or that it’s the issue that causes most civic tensions doesn’t match with my understanding of Saudi occupied Arabia. I don’t think the poverty there is at such a high level either (but I could be wrong)

    “Why is the King of Saudi Arabia not carrying them as well?” – Well, stupidly, people deciding to call themselves “Muslim leaders” have embraced the fake concept of Individual nation states and hence limit themselves to a certain zone of control (e.g. Saudia Arabia, Tunisia or Syria etc).

    I’m quite sure there is perhaps small leakage of Saudi financial aid/assistance to various Muslims and Muslim governments throughout Muslim lands (even in non-Muslim lands) but certainly the Saudi wealth is centralised in Arabia and largely among the usual small elite within the country.

    The thing is, Islam doesn’t have the recommendation to be poor ans dees nothing wrong with becoming wealthy. How that comes about, your responsibilities afterwards, and possible rewards for using wealth satifactorily is part of Islamic teaching.

    But is there not accepted Christian scripture or doctrine which spouses poverty and he shunning of wealth? summed up by saying’s such as ‘money is the root of all evil’. I am sure some Chrisitan preasts/leaders repeat it say to encourage their flock to donate generously as if being literally in posession of money isn’t good (rather than other meanings). Poverty is a christian virtue isn’t it especially if the Christian version of Jesus is to be followed? (or am I wrong???). Didn’t such values get focused on by groups like Quakers and Amish etc?

    And if the Pope is as some Christians decided one day to be the representitive of God on earth, I cannot believe how the Pope can wear all that jewellery when driving through his Popemobile through those living in total powerty and squalor through the streets of Manilla/Rio/Addis Ababba etc.. Doesn’t he feel guilty as hell when he drives past? And what about the clergy in the Parishes? They know many areas like in New York for example have thousands of people living in desparate conditions. (See my post called “Sister Helen. An angel in an angleless place.” Given the Chrisitian view on monet (or what I think is the Christian view of money) how can the Clergy live for decades amongst that poverty? But really my main point was about the Pope. He could order the release of funds to the poor (or even use it to build shelters, training centres, technical colleges/schools etc) bu he doesn’t.

    The Custodian of the Two mosques in MEcca and Medina doesn’t have a Gods representitive on earth title and is only a man. And as a man with enormous wealth SHOULD also feel guilty driving in his male driven car past people leaving in poverty.

    There is another side issue (but in reverse) seen with many of the good people of Thailand. Most call themselves bhuddists yet live lives as capatialists; buying houses, furnishings, fancy clothes, eat meat and spray their homes with insecticide at night to kill any mosquitos.

    Please note: I know followers of religion deviate from their teachings and in the case above $ and the Christian church am not saying

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