Archive for May 28th, 2008

TATP – a discussion wrt British domestic terrorism

The involvement of TATP with regards to 7-7 and Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) are deeply puzzling.

The “yes it was – no it wasn’t – were still waiting for confirmation – dunno – don’t care” stance by the authorities with regards to its use in terrorist acts (both carried out and supposedly thwarted) involving the UK and Britons is damning. Are they not ashamed of their lackadaisical attitude? It is nothing short of a spit in the eye of those killed, those sent into mourning and the rest of us who have to live in the residual climate of fear – a fear entirely the fault of scum like Tony Blair and the rest of the trash who took it upom themselves to sacntion the snuffing out of over a million lives.

How can we explain the strange yes/no/never-confirmed involvement of TATP in 7-7?

The result of this TATP unknown are:

a) It has muddied the waters so as to enable any senario difficult to prove.
b) At first sight it can significantly lessen the “which military did it come from” question about 7-7, given that there were also reports of military grade explosives used in 7-7.
c) It enables the authorities in the future to apportion blame on anybody they so choose should any similar event happen becasue TATP is as they would have us believe is “Embarrassingly simple”[make1] to make and it can kill. Therefore, all of us are potentially just a few simple steps from being bombed.

Those are pretty handy outcomes if indeed the elements of the state were involved in 7-7, either from a LIHOP or MYHOP point of view.

Not only were there turbid waters in relation to the identity of the explosives used, but also specifically with regards to the properties of TATP. This issue, a bit like WTC-7 is in relation to 9-11, has the scent of an Achilles heel about it so I’ve been looking to it a bit more into the TATP case and what I found made me a bit more suspicious. Unsurprizingly there are links to Isreal involved.

Sadly whenever Isreal is mentioned, the brigade often making up the pages in “Hello” magazine, who think well within the boundary of mainstream perception; talking heads like Jeremy Beadle impersonator David Arronovich, Nick Cohen and the rest, try and use inclusion of Israel/Zionism as means to nullify honest discussion, readying accusations of “anti-Semetism”, “Holocaust denier”, and the grand ol opry herself: “Nazi sympathiser” to be fired off at will. Reluctance or dismissal of “things Israel” into 9-11 and 7-7 have been voiced by skeptics of those official naratives in the past, but at least those skeptics consider on it’s merits the information provided.

The Israel content has to do with Prof EHUD KEINAN[p1, p2] who is almost exclusively referenced in mainstream media (MSM) reportage of the properties of TATP. These properties seemingly cause contradiction and cause confusion in making headway in understanding the mechanics of 7-7. Now it could well be that Prof Keinan is quoted simply becasue he is an expert in the field, and he is an established scientist, but to me it goes deeper than that becasue there are no reports of Isreali governmental pressure of Keinan to stop what he says about TATP – which causes a lot of “problems” for the UK narrative.

It’s not too unreasonable to think that the UK govenrment and Israel have the closest of relationships (no not these types of relationships) so a word from the UK govt, to the Isreali govt inorder to stop this man talking (or change his tune) and making the British look like baffoons, isn’t ufounded. Especially when one considers the UK gave birth to Israel. It ignored Haganah terrorist atrocities agaisnt British people, It protected the Zionist state from being facing destruction, and it provided illicit nuclear materials to it with which it used to create about 150 nuclear warheads.

The reportage claims:

a)  TATP doesn’t liberate heat or act as in incendiary when it detonates[2]. It’s ‘the burn problem’. There was burning on 7-7.

b) The energy/detonation problem. Given the near zero energy output of detonating TATP, the energy input to initiate detonation would make TATP far too dangerous to make, transport and use. Page table 9.1 gives the activation energy of nitrtoglycerine as being 36.0 kcal/mol[x4] which is almost exactly the same as the activation energy of TATP, being 36.3 kcal/mole[a1]. The shock-detonation properties of nitro are well known and it has long been regarded as being to hazourdous to use.

c) TATP can be rapidly detected [a2] by adding a cationic complexing agent (Na+) and then characterised by simple MS (my previous post on the subject gives one such MS) But TATP can also be detected by a device that looks like a pen[pet1, 2]. Interesting reference [pet1] above contains this quote

“Yet [3 weeks after 9-11 Ehud Keinan carrying] a vial holding two grams of triacetone triperoxide (TATP), an improvised plastic explosive, went [through an AIRPORT]  completely undetected.”

Update: Had Keinan been a muslim, he’d be rotting, tortured daily in Guantanamo bay camp Delta and quite possibly dead. I do believe Mr. Keinan has violated laws in doing this. Why is nobody bringing charges agaist this man who too material with the explosive power of TNT and detonation profile similiar to nitroglycerine?

td) It also has explosive power comparable to TNT [d1, d2] – so there is no need for military explosives!

e) The synthesis problem. It seems problematic ficult or improbable to make TATP from commercially available products {Caveat: this is opnionated. I haven’t been able to make an exhaustive search, although one reference [old1- partial access only]  indicates 50% peroxide was used. It seems difficult to get over 35% {“technical grade”} without purifying it and its decomposition seems problematic in the presence of imputities like transition metals.  Update: One reference[re30] says “30% H2O2 is needed to create Soluble fuels (acetone, ethanol, glycerol) will detonate on admixture with peroxide of over 30% concentration, the violence increasing with concentration.” So the ‘bombers’ must have either have purchased 30% H2O2 and or purified up to that degree. One must search for records of purchases or apparatus to ensure the necessary purification. Both of which I can find no record of. 

The Isreal connection to public perceptions of TATP and therefore 7/7 in relation to relating to Professor Ehud Keinan: Dean of the Faculty of Chemistry, Technion – Israel Institute of Technology (TIIT) is clear. It must me said that it’s entirely possible he may be being entirely truthful in what he says and it is VERY important to state Keinan is NOT THE ONLY source of such contradictory information, but in my opinion, he is disproportionalely cited by the mainstream media, made all the more strange when he says

“Most of my research has nothing to with explosives,”… “I work on drug discovery to treat asthma, cancer and ventricular fibrillation [an electrical disorder in the heart].” – Ref:[pet1]

 I will try and post more on TATP and 7-7 as time goes on, I’m very busy and can only give these dynamic posts, but do so as I feel if I don’t publish now, I never will.

[make1] = Panorama journalist in discussion Prof EHUD KEINAN Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa

[x4] Thermal Decomposition and Combustion of Explosives and Propellants By G. B. Manelis, G Manelis Manelis

[a1] Scientific paper: Decomposition of Triacetone Triperoxide Is an Entropic
Explosion, Ehud Keinan is cited His name appears at the end of the workers which usually means his input is minimal, however it is there and so he does have some involvement.



[2] Referencing Prof EHUD KEINAN. Note: this is an Isreali government website.

[3] Intresting read about Isreali aggression.

[a2] Scientific paper “Rapid trace detection of triacetone triperoxide (TATP) by complexation reactions during desorption electrospray ionization 


[d1] B. T. Fedoroff, Encyclopedia of Explosives and Related Items, Vol. 1, Picatinny Arsenal, Dover, NJ, 1960, pp. A42–A45.

[d2] 11  J. Yinon, Forensic and environmental detection of explosives, John Wiley, Chichester, NY, 1999, pp. 10–11.\

[old1] Scientific paper: “Studies in Organic Peroxides. XXVI. Organic Peroxides Derived from Acetone and Hydrogen Peroxide,”  N. A. Milas and A. Golubovic, J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1959, 81, 6461–6462

[re30] Bretherick, L. Handbook of Reactive Chemical Hazards. 4th ed. Boston, MA: Butterworth-Heinemann Ltd., 1990 1198. **PEER REVIEWED**

Oh Philip !

It’s been a while since I took a gander at the WeAreChange website. They’ve got a new frontend (but probably the same read-end!). Aging and becoming slower with computers than I would like, I felt more confortable clicking on the “Old site” link.

Their latest entry is dated 25th April 2008 and they feature a short (about 8 mins) interview with Philip Hayton. Conspiraloons, fruitcakes and nutjobs the world over will remember Philip from the BBC world report with Jane Standley who reported the collapse of WTV-7 about 20 minutes before it did actually fall.

Phil in BBC grey.

You tube link here:

In the interview Phil is great. Very honest and sincere. He seemed to me to be taken aback by the news that the the BBC reported the collapse in advance and seemed quite open minded about it.

Was an aura of conspiraloon building within Phil? Possibly. I was getting my hopes up that he may have seen the light, but… my hopes suffered a knockback when Phil said towards the end…

“So is there no official explanation?”

– Oh Philip!

Another blow after that was when the aforementioned possible aura dimmed, when the importance of what he was just told seemed to lessen becasue it had shades of ‘conspiracy’ about it.

When all these revelations were coming out, most sensible conspiraloons said Phil and the BBC were probably just unwitting channels through whom the conspiracy was being publicised. I took that stance and the way Phil is in the WeAreChange interview strengthens my belief about that.

It would be very interesting to know what Phil makes of all this having been sent the information by WeAreChange UK. Did the aura switch permanently on? I hope so and if so “welcome to the club Phil” :D


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