The coming of the white imams

The coming of the white imams

It strikes me that there is a ‘new breed’ of Imams. The ‘white Imams’. You read about these white reverts to Islam and they go off on world tours giving talks/lectures/speaches and so forth. Due to their frequency, it’s not so difficult to get yourself along to one. If you get the chance to ‘come on down’ please do so.

One thing in particular that concerns me is their deadly silence (and/or ignorance) on the massive and overwhelming source of global strife today. The policy makers in the White house, Capitol Hill, Downing Street, and to some degree the Elysee palace, the Kremlin and sittings of the National People’s Congress in Beijing and in New Delhi, World Bank and International Monetary Fund and Bank of Internati0onal Settlements.
These very small numbers of people inflict unspeakable horrors upon the majority of the earths 6.7 billion people on the earth today, be it via:

@ White mans wars
@ Riba based Economics
@ Economic booms and busts (occasionally engineered I would argue) chiefly lead by a ghoulish thirst for profit at all costs
@ Acquisition of traditionally owned lands gifted to industry
@ Continual economic oppression which may entrap a country into growing endless interest rate repayments
@ Massive global pollution
@ Genetic ‘research’ tried to make itself palatable using the excuse of being in the name of medicine
@ GM food
@ Nuclear waste, nuclear accidents and nuclear weapons
@ The looming peak oil crisis.
@ Political meddling interference
@ Conglomerate abuse by monopolisation
@ Famine throughout the world and reasons for it’s existence

It is extremely rare to come across the ‘white imams’ mentioning any of these things, 2 second ‘touch then go’ references don’t count. Why are the imams so blind to these factors? and to me they are blind, massively so! – which concerns me greatly. In fact, it makes alarm bells go off in my head every time I see a white Imam failing to address such issues. These Imams have Charisma (natural, learned or taught?) and so they can open the doors to many hearts, and these white imams are very, very intellectually capable people. The have become very strong in Arabic, they seem to have memorised the Qur’an, they have read loads of discourses and treatises on Islam.

Why then do they display a near complete ignorance of undeniably the greatest source of misery and strife on the planet today? Why is the large body of significant questions about 911, inc. evidence e.g. thermate particles, explosions BEFORE impact, etc, simply ignored by these people, yet instead they say Muslims should stand up and reject terrorism – doing so with obvious reference to what we have been told is Al Qaeda? i.e. “Muslims did it!” Actually examination of 911 suggests most strongly it was the work of non-Muslims, or at least non-Muslims allowed to happen.

Not only that but it was the work of mainly non-Muslims who started to uncover the official lies/conspiracy of 911. Muslims scepticism of 911 came after the initial trailblazing path of those 911 truth activists e.g. Dave Von Kleist, Alex Jones, George Humphrey, Eric Huffschmidt, Thierry Meyssan, Massimo Mazzucco, Barrie Zwicker, David Icke, Dylan Avery, Paul Thompson, Ray McGovern, Steve Jones, Barry Jennings, William Rodriguez, etc.. Muslims who look at the work of those non-Muslims and go on to draw their own conclusions are then in effect chastised for doing so and so become victims once more, not just at the hands of the USUK killing machine and hired killers such as Blackwater and Aegis (or whatever they have changed their name to these days)

To have the white Imams do this is like applying a cat-o-nine-tails upon the Muslims and to me is quite disturbing if not offensive. Why assist the USUK in its “crusade” as BuSh put it, in the ‘Coalition of the Killings’ orgy of slaugher?

Let’s us also not forget that there has also not been what coudl seriously be called a criminal trial of those so called Muslim terrorists.
If you’d rather avoid 911, Why do they not denounce the bankers and multinationals that impoverish and economically enslave billions throughout the world??? Why do they not devote ‘public liaison time’ to this crucial issue?

Instead they denounce “Muslim extremists” and never the leviathan that is state sponsored terror, which eclipses supposed “Muslim extremist acts of terror”. And of course “Muslim extremist” is a relativism. If your family is killed by white phosphorous and snipers in Fallujah, it is perfectly understandable that you may decide to take certain actions of revenge. How can these people be called terrorists yet what causes such acts virtually never get a mention. In criticising the Muslims, they take focus away from the massive crimes of the non-Muslims.

I’m going to name some ‘white imams’ e.g. Shoaib Webb, Yusef Estas and Hamza Yusuf, (the former two I have attended talks thereof)

I asked Yusef Estas about why have we become tolerant of and live within secularism? He said we as Muslims are not ready to follow a non-secular order, we don’t even accept the rulings of religious leaders on issues of Yoga. He spent absolutely no attention as to WHY MUSLIMS ARE SECULAR, but he did criticise those who don’t want to be secular. I think he called them ‘nut jobs’ or words t that effect.

I said to Imam Shaoib Webb something like “Assalamualaikum. I’m not a scholar, so I don’t know what you’ll make of my opinion. You mentioned oppression and legitimacy of fighting against that oppression. If you read Howard Zinn’s “A history of the American People”, [the correct title is “A People’s History of the United States” *humph*] Steven Kinzers “Overthrow” and Simon Sharma “A history of Britain” you will see it’s the non-Muslims, the US and UK, that are largely responsible for the oppression of the Muslims. I think Overthrow details 100 US invasions and interferences in 100 years, [I think I should have said ‘about 50’ – oops] and in recent times Israyhell oppressing the Palestinians over 60 something years. It’s these people who some Muslims refer to as Kafir [I should have said Kufur] and who the Muslims oppose who are the target of resistance, not the ordinary Non-Muslims. Could you comment about that?”

After I sat down, my head was abuzz with regret for fluffing the Q somethat and not putting the question better and failing to include his reference of HOPE about Obama. Brother Shoaib had recounted a story where he was warned by concerned Christians to vote Democrat i.e. for Al Gore in the 2000 US election, (for the Jan 2001 inauguration) to stop Bush and the crazy Neocons from entering the oval office. I wanted to bring to his attention that just the other day, the US drones had again bombed and killed tens of people (the US calls such acts a ‘strike against Islamic militants or Taliban or Al Queda’) and that Obama had legitimised many of these bombings killing perhaps a thousand people already. As a result of this post-question regret, I listened to his comment, but didn’t get the FULL detail of it, however he largely sidestepped the major issue and said he hasn’t a problem with the Palestinians resisting.


His Islamic knowledge is solar systems beyond mine, but IMHO, all that knowledge is put to extremely poor use, and doesn’t help the Muslim cause as it could.

People like the ‘white imams’ should be out campaigning for Muslims to get back to Muslim currency, demanding an END OF STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM, advocating direct action. Instead to saying things like “Muslims should not make declarations because they haven’t studied Islam, they arn’t scholars, don’t understand when a verse was revealed, to whom it applied and what time in history it came from”, completely oblivious that such verses are surely included in the Qur’an (and not a one time job only) as lessons to apply for the rest of humanity, in other words, these ‘don’t speak, you’re not a scholar’ people themselves seem likely to misunderstand the entirety of  what’s in the Qur’an. They aren’t applying the Quran to life today in terms of the gross problems I listed above, but they will if that application will not put those majot issues under the spotlight.

The white imams continually advocate micro/inner analysis and perspectives on life, and don’t look at the big picture, much to their shame.

As I finish this post, I am wondering am I being so fair in singling out these ‘white imams’ people? Well, given that they have cosy/cordial/friendly chats with mudering scum and blatant liars such as Tony Blair (as Sheikh Hamza Yusuf did) and have lunch with BuSh in the White house as Bush said “This is not a war against Islam” thereby due to the Muslims presence with Bush, pacifying perfectly a justifiable Muslim outrage against BuSh and the Neocon filth. That a tragedy, what an appalling thing to be associated with. So my focus on them is justified. Other not of the ‘white imam’ quadrant also do the same, however as mentioned the ‘white imams’ have Charisma and extra influence and in my book, greater responsibility to do what is right.

So I appeal to ‘white imams’, men of great Islamic knowledge, stop judging things by western standards. See and denounce strongly in public, the real reason why the planet is in a state of fitna and near jahillia. Those in the seats of power across most of the industrialised world.

Update: Oh, and imams, you could lend your silky verbal skills to this too: “Ahmed is one of several British citizens and residents who have alleged British complicity in their torture in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt and the UAE during the so-called war on terror.” Question is, will you?

22 Responses to “The coming of the white imams”

  1. 1 AkMaR July 9, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Oh, this is interesting.
    “White imams” are ignoring the major crisis faced by Muslims all over the world.

    Perhaps they do not want to be assassinated?
    I heard of a few if not many daring speakers being assassinated, or punished by the authority.
    That even happened in Mecca!
    (That reminds me of a few posts i wanna do which i hv been procrastinating for so long)

  2. 2 lwtc247 July 9, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    Actually strange that you mention assassination, as at the Imam Shoaib talk, it was said (by others) that there had been a recent assassination attempt on a Christian minister/priest in Egypt (who I think was Imam Shoaib was acquainted with). I didn’t get the full story, but to be honest, I did feel like there was an area or a zone out there containing people and forces I didn’t know and didn’t understand. I did feel a bit scared, unsure and a bit cold.

    But later, I started thinking about the corporate mainstream media (MSM) and how they like to portray this kind of thing (as did Yusef Estes and Imam Shoaib to varying degrees) that there are innocent people out there, who are just randomly blown up or shot for no apparent reason. I may be alone here, but I find it EXTREMEMLY difficult to accept that Muslims do such random acts of violence. If those Muslims were controlling a state, then I could accept it a bit more.

    I am very aware that there have been times when it’s the enemies of the Muslims who do such things making it look like it’s Muslims.

    Still, who really knows for sure???

    Also Imam Shoaib mentioned about a group of Muslims who tried to take over the Kabah (in the 80’s I think) and he said they killed people. But when I was in the UK, I had some very knowledgeable friends tell me the Saudi forces killed men who tried to liberate Mecca from the House of Saud, and when you know the Saud’s are the strongest allies-cum-puppets of the US and US (they uses to allow US military bases and Towns in Arabia) then I really hesitate to accept brother Shoiabs account.

    Looking forward to your next interesting posts.


  3. 3 Bril Music September 5, 2009 at 12:01 am

    I have been looking all over the web for a definite stance taken by these Imams in mention about 911. I cannot find any solid evidence, nor have I had the proper setting to pose the question to them directly. If it is the case that they adhere to the government conspiracy of the 19 Arabs with box-cutters this far removed from the event than I will surely be disappointed. I agree with your point mentioned that many people who study the din intensely fail to apply much of it to where it is needed.
    What I have noticed is that Sheikh Hamza’s lectures before 911 were pregnant with insight and much of his knowledge of history corroborates my personal research into the history of Christianity, The New World Order of Dajjal and etc. But 911 is THE cataclysmic event of our century and if it is not properly identified for EXACTLY what it was (A FALSE FLAG TERROR OP) then it is impossible for this Ummah to assess what direction to go in.

    Just a brotha hoping for us all to get our heads out of the sand…

    Any info you can provide is much appreciated and forgive me if I have unintentionally offended anyone.

    • 4 lwtc247 September 5, 2009 at 6:01 am

      Bril Music.

      I don’t have specific articles/statements/documents to hand so sorry, but it should be very very easy to find many prominent Muslims condemning the 9-11 attacks.

      As in Sheikh Hamza Yusuf’s case, as I previously read at, these Imams start saying Muslims need to reject ‘extremism’ etc which of course is an endorsement of the government line that ‘those Muslims’ did it. [One of whom apparently drinks alcohol, eats pork, views lap dancers and had lived outside marriage with some girlfriend]. Other ‘leaders’ remain silent. Some do denounce the likely US govt conspiracy, or at least calling for a REAL investigation into 9-11, but they are in the minority.

      Those who stay silent or avoid the issues of 9-11 by their omission of US criticism (for whatever reason), like those who make statements about Muslims rejecting ‘extremism’ allows the ridiculous claims of the 9/11 Kean commission report, NIST and EPA to remain.

      And while there is no requirement for ‘democratic’ arguments to impinge on Islamic leaders ship (Islamicly it should be that the scholars and learned people who lead the masses) this implied endorsement of the US govt line, is plainly wrong and so the leaders should NOT be followed in such circumstances. Their silence to speak out against the official conspiracy actually harms the welfare of the ummah and other people all over the world.

      In general I think the bulk of the ummah is being lead down the proverbial garden path. The peoples belief that a dirty element of the US govt is involved with 9-11 is inconsequential, a headless dragon if you will, due to the complicity, apathy, corruption or even sheer ignorance of the Muslim leadership.

      The leaders have a large slice of responsibility. 9-11 is but one stretch along this garden path albeit a significant one, and their practice of Islam is suffering as a result. ‘Secular’ Islam (I know it’s an oxymoron) gains pace. Just look at the vast majority of Muslims who entertain riba when they use fiat currency. The prominent leaders {with very few noble exceptions} are almost utterly silence on this. Garden path Muslims and leaders don’t even try to leave that path (by using silver and gold), so I have little reason to believe heads will get out of the sand.

  4. 5 Abu Sulayman November 16, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    White Imam’s as opposed to Black or Brown Imam’s? come on you need to get a grips dude and stop waffling tripe against fellow muslims who in fact are much more busy establishing the deen than yourself.

    I reject this notion of White Imam’s as it actually smells of an inferior complex on your behalf and to somehwat i am embarressed for your seriously!

    I know you can do better so come on and lets see you do better Inshallah.

    Ma salama Abu Sulayman

  5. 6 lwtc247 November 16, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Salam brother.

    Don’t get hung up by the title, which as it happens, is actually pretty good given the greater spread of Islam to what one could call the white world. It’s a pity you aren’t able to see it’s descriptive qualities but instead see a racial one erected entirely by yourself I may add.

    The post has absolutely noting to do with racism or inferiority, despite what you are reading into it. The post is about the failure of these Imams (and if you are familiar with this blog, you will realise I will have views for many non-white Imams too, which no doubt you ralised by researching thie blog and didn’t jump the gun)

    When you said earlier “stop waffling tripe against fellow muslims who in fact are much more busy establishing the deen than yourself.” this is better, you are getting to the point, even if marginally.

    You see my point is, as described above, that they are doing a GREAT DISSERVICE to establishing THE deen, but rather ‘a’ deen that apologises/whitewashes for all the disgusting things the West is doing, while engaging in lunching with killers like Bush and Blair, barking out what B&B want them to say about “terrorism isn’t Islamic” and endorsing the official lies of 9-11 – WHILE COMPLETELY IGNOORING THE GREATEST TERRORISTST OF ALL TIMES… THE ZidaeoChristian STATES.

    I’d hazard a guess from your comment that the issues on which the white Imams fall down on (with a mighty clap of thunder) are on a trivial scale with you too! Feel free to correct me on that notion, but you didn’t spend one word addressing it! After, I’d appreciate a comment on the issue that the Imams are failing miserable on that score too! Which was the crux of the post.

    ” i am embarressed for your seriously!” – Thanks but I don’t need it and it’s of no consequence to me. You see, there is an ayat in the Qur’an and hadith which respectibvely commands me to stand out firmly for justice and speak out against evil (which inludes injustice IMHO). Frankly I couldn’t care less what most people thinks of me – actually I need to modify that, I do care, but I try hard not to and I wish I didn’t (and sometimes it’s impossible), but on matters like this I see no reason not to be true to myself just because peope may think badly of me (when in fact they haven’t take it upon themselves to listen to what I was saying)

    Do you really think I am wrong in criticising people like Shaib Webb for dodging the Wests crimes against millions of innocent Muslims (and it’s own people)?

    I appreciate your honesty. I trust you have no personal relations in all this.

    These white Imams have great virturs, as I said, but they need to be told of their folly. What’s wrong with saying that?

    O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allâh, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allâh is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allâh is Ever Well Acquainted with what you do [4:135]

    The Prophet (saw), narrated by
    Muslim, 49, said: ““Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand, if he cannot, then with his tongue, and if he cannot, then with his heart and that is the weakest of faith””

    Salam and I appreciate your comment.

  6. 7 lwtc247 November 16, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    P.s. you linked to Shaykh Abdalqadir’s site. May I ask why?

    The inspirational shaykh wrote a very poorly concieved article called “Conspiracy Practice”. or someone writing on his blog put his name to it there.

    Sadly he didn’t reply to my concerns about it, which is a great pity. My letter (hastily written I admit) adreses the theme of this post.

  7. 8 Abu Sulayman November 17, 2009 at 6:54 pm


    Being rehtorical Sidi doesnt do you any justice here.

    Sidi the whole 911 thing frankly is doing us the ummah no service except being caught up in brash conspiracy theories .

    911 is not the all and end all of the worlds problems, yes it is clear to anyone with half a brain that there was more to the whole picture than meets the eye and so what? this kind of thing is not new but we cannot change anything that happend that day except try and make sure it doesnt happen again.

    Back to the white Imams , well sidi people do what they are able to do and no one is being apologetic when it comes to the deen mark my words here because i speak from direct experience from many of the Imam you have sadly attacked.

    One cannot change society over night , it takes time and this is logical you cannot rush anything so have some sabr and look at the great things that people have acheived Shaykh AbdalQadir as Sufi being one of them which by the way is the main muslim community pushing the whole Riba subject and the re minting of the gold dinar plus lets not forget the history of Shaykh Abdalqadir’s community which started way back in the 1960s to which it has become now, Hamzah Yusuf came to islam through Shaykh AbdalQadir and look at what a dymanic man he has become.

    The Sufis say : Look for the bad and you see the bad, look for the good and you will see the good.

    The shaykh wrote an amazing artical and always does and he always gets people thinking, i suggest you read again and do some resurch because your rantings dont make any sense at all because you have fallen for the biggest trap that being conspiracy theories.

    It could just be the fact that you cannot understand his writing and have taken a literalist stance and havent seen the under lying message.

    We know 911 was a total set up but what does it acheive? nothing!

    Shaykh AbdalQadir says Kufr is one! and the kufar will always do odd things in order to make the moominoon look stupid and make themselves look the victim and in fact they are the aggressors.

    Some men on 911 set out to destroy people and their own lives thats a fact! i have seen the footage of both Atta and his band of nihalists drinking alcohol and meeting women just before the events took place.

    Now what looks more clear is that these terrorists were in fact set up by the very people that sent them out remember Bin Laden was a CIA opp so do you think his links are gone? Agent provocator comes to mind? or as Shaykh abdalQadir says : Act du provocator!

    Now lets take another look at 911 with its details shall we?

    911 was what USA needed to push forward their agenda of world economic policies and now we are seeing this happen just take a look at their agenda now compared to before 911?

    What ever happens to the world around us this should not stop us from doing our job of establishing the deen where we live now, 1st by having the correct form of leadership according to the shariah this being Amr, without an Amir and a community where does it leave you?

    Inshallah i will be back laters when i am less busy so please forgive me for rushing as i am a very busy man at times Mashallah ;-))

    Stay kool and have a blessed week , ma salaama Abu Sulayman

  8. 9 lwtc247 November 19, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Brother, with respect, you’re not getting the point. And your quite mistaken in saying I’m being rhetorical.

    9-11 is perhaps the most serious political incident to occur in the lifetime of most of the planet. It was global reach. It is the foundation of endless and pervasive war.

    It matters not that the American empire is dying, as in the resulting ashes it will still be a potent geopolitical force as the former world power – the UK.

    Empires do not collapse over night. Their death is protracted and like a cornered wounded savage beast, it’s extremelely dangerous! One of its last lunges is likely to be N.Korea, Iran or Venezuela using the Colombian vassal state. War is the only illusion of wealth that the US has. Its debt mountain ha become unmanageable and war will multiplying the severity of its eventual impact.

    9-11 was the excuse for Afghanistan and Iraq. Pakistan too is like a tinderbox. They way you dismiss 9-11 and what has emerged out of it, and what ___will___ come out of it is bad. If from the time serious questions of that event started rolling in, the Muslims got off their backsides and started pointing the finger in the direction where it was most justified t point those fingers, then what must be about 2m people wouldn’t have been massacred.

    2m people people => “So what”

    Man, I think you would be best off re-assessing that opinion!

    At this point, some self “intellectuals” may say, (and I’m pre-emptiong here, not straw-man erecting:) “they died, then so obviously God already had those deaths planned. It was inevitable.” Precarious logic surely.

    What absolute knowledge exists that different parthways of history don’t have different prescribed times for death? You see, you have trashed the meaning and implications of free choice. But that is the result from linear thinking, and negates the concept of jihad.

    So when the Muslims sat in silence after Colin Powell spewed out those heinous lies at the UNSC about torture victims confessions (Al Libby) linking Iraq to 9-11 and other lies ad nauseum, the Muslims opened heir eyes and a tsunami of cheerleading corporate media proclaiming it was his “finest moment”, a “senior/global statesman performance”, then the resulting silence say the death knell of 1.3m people was struck.

    Those deaths did not have to occur. A different stream of life could have been traversed with a different prescribed time of death.

    You say “it is clear to anyone with half a brain that there was more to the whole picture”, then what of the mulsims that swallowed the official narrative? What fraction of a brain do they have? What of those Muslims that stayed silent? What of those Muslims who wined and dined with bush pointing a very illegitimate finger towards Muslims giving creedance to Bush’s looming death frst.

    “So what”

    “do what they are able to do” – Yeah???? 1 billon+ Muslims did all they could???? Methinks not!.

    It’s to ALL our shame that did did virtually NOTHING! In general We ALLOWED ourselves to conned.

    And as I said, the White Imams did virtually NOTHING to stop Bush. And some to their undying shame, endorsed Bush’s deadly war cry.

    One cannot change society overnigsht” – What a cop out! Don’t pull out economy catch phrases. Frankly that is an attempt to cleanse the conscience. And how prey tell did the society get so rotten in the frst place? It changed because people spouted out such silly phrases like that and believed they were doing enough to counter act the descent into this dirty world we have today. Just as people beileve Muslim leaders did all they could have to stop the consequences of 9-11. You are defeated by your own arguement.

    Tell me achi, what exactly did the majority of Muslim leaders do to stop the emergence of this post 9-11 world?? A big ZERO?? Enlighten me brother, enlighten me.

    I’m not going to say anything about Shaykh AbdalQadir other than the dismal article he wrote on that matter. Unlike others, I haven’t poured pixie dust in my own eyes, so I can see clearly the numerous (very human) flaws in that piece.

    I know not of what he specifically did post 9-11, I’m sure you will tell me.

    You say I attack the Imams. That’s not true. I pointed out a failing of them in the hope they will get out of the rut they are in and do what they should be doing. You really should about getting that pixie dust out of your eyes. It’s made you blind to my admirations of them (other than on this posts raison detre.

    Brother when the US pumps out lies of yellowcake, unaccounted for weapons, mobile anthrax labs, reports that Saddam deonated nuclear warheads, Nerve gas, capability to launch Europe bound missiles in 45 minutes, you get off your behind and DO something about it. You don’t sit down and eat Kulfi.

    ” look at the great things that people have acheived Shaykh AbdalQadir as Sufi being one of them which by the way is the main muslim community pushing the whole Riba subject ” – Now that IS a straw man. That has nothing at all to do with their failings on THIS MATTER!

    May Allah reward ALL Muslims who work for the way of Allah SWT. May Allah SWT not allow them in the future to fail as they failed on the issue of doing things to stop the liquidation of Muslims and non-Muslims across the globe.

    BUT THEY REPEATING THE SAME MISTAKES. THEY ARE DEADLY SILENT ABOUT STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM. They are kicking dust at the ummah telling them to reject purported Terrorist leanings. While they sit in terrible derilicition of their responsibilites as Ulama.

    “The Sufis say : Look for the bad and you see the bad, look for the good and you will see the good.” That makes their errors ok then does it?

    “The shaykh wrote an amazing artical” – No he didn’t. It was poor article. He’s a man for pity’s sake. He’s flawed. Wake up to reality man! By what Divine pronouncement must he never express bad judgement. Imam Shoaib Webb told Muslims to ask that claims are validated. He also told people not to be starrey-eyed or bring about taboo about saying things and he told us of one of the companions who beat his wife black and blue!

    We know 911 was a total set up but what does it acheive? nothing! Well, It seems like Shaykh AbdalQadir doesn’t think it was a set up. Where in his artivcle does he indicate that what you said represents his position?

    Strange that you mention the word “Kufr” brother, as the white Imam Shoaib Webb told people not to use that word and those who did were weak in knowledge, not understianding the context of when it was used in the Qur’an.

    “Some men on 911 set out to destroy people and their own lives thats a fact!” – No it’s not. You or anyone else has ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that anyone committed suicide that day. It’s possible, some masy say likely, but it’s definately not a fact.

    “911 was what USA needed to push forward their agenda of world economic policies” I think you are at odds at what Shaykh AbdalQadir says. He dismisses conspiracy doesn’t he? And he DEFINATELY dismisses the so called “Jews” from any conspiracy. That was the whole point of his article was it not?

    Brother, I really recommend you read some Islamic eschatology. It seems to me that we are but a relative papers breadth from Qiyamah. Try reading “Jerusalem in the Quran” by Sheikh Imran Hosein – a landmark book pertaining to neglected faith.

    I will post you a copy if you like.

    I cannot be cool when the Muslim leaders are this way, and if we ge the leaders we deserve, then Oh Allah, have mercy on us.

    I too am going to be very busty over the next few weeks.


  9. 10 Abu Sulayman November 19, 2009 at 7:37 pm


    Being rehtorical most certainly does you no favours Sidi and i repeat this again because you seem to treat me as well as other with an attitude that not only lacks adab but also akhlaq.

    Not only have you not read Shaykh AbdalQadirs letter with any depth but most of it you have absolute no knowledge of and your very lack of understanding of the letter is blatent in your attempt to belittle riddicule and defame a shaykh that you have not met never mind anyone who is among his company.

    The shaykh said :

    “In popular parlance conspiracy theory has been carefully groomed and defined as a symptom of a private psychosis.

    Any suggestion that the outward structuration of nation states, international organisations and government bureaucracies does NOT govern the world along with the suggestion that there is a hidden power system linking all events in a secret scheme of world governance via inaccessible institutions clearly marks a person as the victim of a paranoid fantasy.

    What gives that particular madness its allure is that it disturbingly touches on vital aspects of modern society that, nevertheless, simply do not add up. It is a precarious step from recognising that almost all the major American and European banking institutions are in the hands of jewish families to being convinced that they are bent on world domination.

    The first construct is true but the second is fantasy. There is the little matter of the Chinese – a chill reality that puts paid to the zionist fantasy.”

    Now i dont need to be rehtorical do i?

    If there is anyone among the people of Shaykh AbdalQadir that knows about the whole 911 blunder it is me as i was personally involved in the 911 truth campaign so again Sidi please do not be rehtorical with me .

    What you have to remember is this!

    There is no global jewish conspiracy! fact!

    The world today is controled by unelected banking elites! Fact!

    The very money you have is nothing but a magical tool of riba { Usury }that has no intrinsic value! Fact!

    911 was and always was a means to delude people from the truth! Fact!

    Watch this and learn from it instead of blowing fitna pixie dust in the face of muslims.

    On Terrorism an interveiw with Shaykh Dr AbdalQadir as sufi.

    When you have watched this interveiw then come back to me and lets start again shall we, but next time try keep a hold of your nafs as this is most important.

    Abu Bakr ibn Abi Maryam reported that he heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say: “A time is certainly coming over mankind in which there will be nothing [left] which will be of use save a dinar and a dirham.”

    (The Musnad of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal)

  10. 11 lwtc247 November 19, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Again I’m not being rhetorical. Repeating something that’s wrong only appears in the minds of some to make it correct.

    You come here and bully-off saying:

    “stop waffling tripe against fellow muslims”
    “smells of an inferior complex”
    “i am embarressed for your seriously”

    and you say I have no respect???

    Brother, there’s a word for what you’ve just done. You go figure out what that word could be.

    In the mean time you say “Not only have you not read Shaykh AbdalQadirs letter with any depth” to which I take it I haven’t read the same meaning into it as you did.

    “most of it you have absolute no knowledge of” – That may be true, but how would you know? Isn’t that rather presumptious of you? And I’ve “never met anyone in his among company”. Wow. You sure know a lot about me.

    “lack of understanding” – about that word… any results yet?

    “your attempt to belittle riddicule and defame a shaykh” Your false accusations are noted.

    What don’t you understand about a man has written a poor article that you don’t understand?

    This thread isn’t even about Shaykh AbdalQadir!! You initially linked to him. I asked why and you ignored my question. Like you ignored quite a number of other things I said and asked.

    It seems like you’re just dreaming up things to steer off the point about in a desire to pick a fight over and hurl abuse. Why? What’s your motivation? Is it because my eyes arn’t full of pixie dust like your are?

    And as I stated earlier::: “I’m not going to say anything about Shaykh AbdalQadir other than the dismal article he wrote on that matter.” The Shaykh has large numbers of people who respect him. I’m not bucking the trend, I just think the article is lousy. Do you understand that now. I know perfectly well that on a scale of his “Muslimship” to mine, I’d not even register as a single digit. That isn’t up for dispute.

    And secondly your opinions on 9-11 is nothing to do with this thread either. I’m very glad your in 9-11 truth. Well done. I’m glad, very glad, the Muslim world needs more like you.

    Now go try and encourage those Imams mentioned int he post to join up too, and while your at it, get them to stop going on about Muslims needing to avoid becoming terrorists. and encourage them to start focusing on STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM and some of the other neglected points listed above.

  11. 12 Abu Sulayman November 19, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    Wa alaykumsalaam.

    Thank you for your outburst something which i knew you would do as you have no control over your own nafs, Sidi control yourself for once its embarressing seriously!

    White Imam’s again you use this race term to which is no place in Islam.

    I dont follow the lkes of Webb or any of those you call White Imam’s LOL

    You will have to do better with me or else you will lose each time to your nafs which is the worse enemy.

    It is the very nature of your posts that are ample proof that you are someone with very little knowledge of the deen to which i can help Inshallah if and only if you have Sabr with me and realise that you no longer talking to a novice in deen.

    One needs to raise oneself to a higher state and stop using words lke Lousy and Pixie dust although i find it amusing its not the way of the moominoon to address such men of Allah.

    Watch the interveiw Bismillah and see what has been said and where we need to go from here as an Ummah.

    Dont let the kuffar win by fooling you into some trap that doesnt get anyone anywhere right now.

    Your duty as a Muslim is to establish the deen and this starts with men woman and children under an Amir with goal to seek the pleasure of Allah.

    Read more and get out more meet the men and women of Allah .

  12. 13 lwtc247 November 19, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    So you didn’t make much progress on taht word then. Fine.

  13. 14 brilmusic August 26, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    so i still can’t find many scholars who can see clearly on the proverbial garden path. your page is still being trolled…and the false flag attacks continue…seems like we are moving backwards…imran hosein puts the pieces together pretty well , what do you think about his thesis?

  14. 15 lwtc247 September 4, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    I think his thesis is probably the closest I’ve seem to a complete depiction of the world today. I do have a few Q’s for him however, such as, what makes him so sure the sailors who saw the chained beast (dajjal??) on an Islamd means that island was Britain? The only way they could have known this was by circumnavigating it and that would have taken a long time not to mention extremely hazardous. But I’ve never seen a better description of todays world.

  15. 16 lwtc247 September 4, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    …but until I hear a better description (and it’s going to take a hell of an effort to trump it!) then I’m sticking with the good Sheikh.

  16. 17 Ummu AbdulRahman February 20, 2011 at 12:58 am

    This is so racist. I can’t understand why you would single out “white”? I don’t see any scholars brown black or whatever disucssin half the issues that you mentioned in any detail. And in fact, I have listened to Shaikh Hamza Yusuf discuss the topic of Food and GM with decent amount of information and conviction. What do you hope to gain by singling out any imams based on color and accusing them of any one thing? It only creates hatred and very possibly adds to your sins. I don’t think in anyway it will benefit you or us the readers. In fact i feel insulted and i am not white i am brown. I am insulted that our intellect and our baseera as muslims is so blinded that we still see race and color in this way.

  17. 18 nida February 20, 2011 at 2:13 am

    ‘White’ is not limited to referencing one’s race or color – it is also an ideological framework. I am ‘white’ (as in of European origin) but I am certainly not ‘white’ in the sense that I allow myself to be sheepishly deluded by post-enlightenment liberalists and their visions of a perfect secular world order.

    I think imams, generally, who reside in the west find themselves in a rather peculiar situation. While I understand why the sensitivity of the issues would keep many leaders away from speaking out against political problems, it doesn’t really help us in the long term as a community when they don’t. Some fear being prosecuted and labeled, and others simply try to stay away from politics because that is not their area of expertise. The truth is, many of our scholars have been trained in religious sciences while completely neglecting all other areas of study. Islam is no longer being approached holistically, and that is always a set back if you want solutions for real world problems. We can’t expect them to know the answer to everything that’s going on.

    On the other hand you have secular scholars who have only studied geo-politics and history and world affairs, but they have a clue about proper etiquette in matters of war and diplomacy according to Islamic prescription. What we need today is a merger between our religious authorities and our ‘secular’ scholars so that we may reach better conclusions and reform the situation of the Muslim community world wide.

  18. 19 lwtc247 February 20, 2011 at 2:32 am

    Salam Ummu. Thanks for writing in. Sorry that you feel this is racist but with respect, you haven’t understood the point of this post – perhaps that’s my fault.

    Immigrant Muslims from different nations (predominantly Arab/Arfican/IndoPak/IndoMalaysian) into ‘white’ nations experience HUGE pressure to ‘shut-up’ when in ‘white’ host countries. For these people, to speak out against a ‘host governments’ policies soon gets an acidic attack from these governments such as declarations that what these immigrants have done is:
    disrespectful to govt/people of that white countries,
    an ‘attack’ on democracy
    against the ‘norms’ of that society
    or sign of a failure to “integrate”
    or worse still
    a sign that the immigrant population want to take over or impose their culture/religion on the country in which they have come. Things that some UK politicians and pro-Zionist EDL, BNP, NF would say.

    Examples of policies which immigrant Muslims may want to criticise might be: ‘white’ countries having troops busily killing Afghani’s / Iraqi’s, trying to install puppet governments with the view of thieving those countries national resources for unreasonably low costs, or Western governments use of false flags and unwavering support for so called israyhell.

    Precisely because these ‘White Imams or reverts to Islam’ are from ‘white countries, they cannot have these inflated, pseudo-denouncements of white governments levied upon them as the immigrant Muslim population does. THIS IS THE KEY POINT.

    But these White Imams (who are have far more influence than ordinary white reverts) FAIL again and again and again to speak out on many deadly serious issues*, and in some cases are very buddy-buddy with these white national governments, helping them market the global campaign of death and terror against whole nations an populations overseas.

    To give a recent example, I know of at least one who used words of support for the Egyptian revolution while taking refuge in the American Embassy in Cairo! while nearby hundreds of thousands of ordinary people out on the streets demonstrating against a torturer, embezzler, murderer and tyrant Hosi Mubarak. I never heard a word of criticism from him while the regime of Mubarak was in full flow. In fact this person praised the Egyptians not not criticising his home country when it was his home country that was largely responsible for Mubarak’s near 30 reign of terror

    And I feel sick at when some of these ‘White Imams’ bend over backwards and issue apologetics for Islam/Muslims and denounce the accused 19 Arabs hijackers who are accused of doing 9-11 or the London bombings on 7/7/05. In doing so, they are actually participating in the accusations that the accused did it and also play a part in deionisation of men slur the names of these who supposedly did 9-11 (one of whom called his dad soon after the attacks claiming his innocence).

    And to believe there are NO white Imams from these ‘horror countries’ in the pay of the godless western powers that be and their occult Zion supporting masters is folly.

    If these ‘White Imams’ did in fact start speaking out against their home governments, then my aggravation against them would end. So you are very wrong in thinking this is a criticism of race or a race/racism iussue

    * OK So you say Hamzah Yuseff has talked about GM food. But forgive me for thinking the proportion of time he speaks about ALL the serious issues is fleetingly small, and he doesn’t advocate anything that would upset the apple cart. Feel free to elaborate on exactly what he did do and crucially, how he follows-up on his touching of the issue.

  19. 20 lwtc247 February 20, 2011 at 2:40 am

    “it doesn’t really help us in the long term as a community when they don’t.”. Ummu, you can see Nida has grasped the point.

    “Some fear being prosecuted and labeled…”
    Watch this video – particularly early on when the prophet is reported to be talking about the reason why the awe in the hearts of non-Muslims for Muslims is removed.

  20. 21 lwtc247 February 20, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    This: British gay Muslims seek Islamic weddings provides extra weightage to what I am saying. You can read it here:

    By being yellow livered about any ‘issues’ between Islam and godless western life, Muslims are allowing Islam itself to come under attack and as you can see, it IS under attack. Gay Muslims. Dear Lord. I don’t care if men have feelings for other man. It matters not if you have over time ingested many food laced hormones screwing up your body chemistry, seen gay stuff on the TV. believes the BS about gay genes, or were homosexually abused as a youngster, you simply don’t engage in sexual acts with him and you don’t ‘give in’ to the Gay lifestyle.

    Muslims – especially the indigenous White Imams – are THE people to denounce the encroachment of perverted western morals into Islam precisely because by taking up that mantle, they protect the immigrant Muslim community. But more often than not, it’s the immigrant Muslim community that have to take up the challenge and therefore get stabbed by the powerful method of racism.

    The White Imams would NOT make simply be-all and end-all comments like “Homosexuality is incompatible with Islam.” No! They should point out this gross perversion of Islam and denounce them.

    In a democracy, ALL voices should be allowed to be heard. Muslims are make up a part of the country so fierce denunciation of homosexuality is perfectly reasonable, and far more important of course, is that protection of the Deen and speaking up for Gods systems of life, if only to encourage the Muslims to stay within the teachings of monotheism.

    Any section of society has a right to push for it’s agenda. Jusr like at the so called israyhelli lobby. They have HUGE influence over the british govt and they lobby tirelessly for this nauseating cause. Muslims too have a right to demand their voices be heard too and have their moral values upheld.

    Wake up White Imams. Use your positions in the way of Allah.

  21. 22 lwtc247 May 25, 2011 at 7:27 am

    May 14th, 2011
    Bin Laden is a heresy against Islam, says Cambridge scholar


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