Zeitgeists’s own invisible hand

Overall I have a kind of liking for the Zeitgeist series, and the final goal the series promotes, which on the face of it is an egalitarian, unpolluted world living in harmony with high-tech human engineering. Zeitgeist is (I think) a German word which means ‘spirit of the ages’. It’s unfortunate however that the succulence contained within the Zeitgeist movies are served with pretty large portions of dead and decaying meat

For example: Seemingly smarter people than I , supporters of the The Mises institute , go on to suggest Zeitgeist of trying to make us deep-throat Communism.

“Come get some” – Lenin. {or was it Duke Nukem?}

But some of us sheeple don’t particularly want to join that particular flock, so we’ll decline the offer, but thanks anyway boys.

If that wasn’t bad enough, which it is, then we get to the other point that pervades the Zeitgeist movies: It’s hatred of religion.

Now, as then, today’s residual rabble of communists/socialists/Marxists(of the very unfunny kind) don’t entertain the idea of religion, and once more, true to form, they embark upon a way to purge it from humanity. While “Zeitgeist” isn’t able to slaughter tens of millions as in Communisms golden age, it sets out to achieve this purge by the only means left at its disposal: an appeal to the mind, or more accurately, a gross deception of the mind.

Hey buddy, get with the real world man. We’ve NLP now.

I will hopefully demonstrate Zeitgeist’s third attempt to pass on their contempt of religion contained in its spiel in the latest movie: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD (2011)–

It becomes quite obvious towards the end of the very interesting (yet utterly godless) first section in which humans development is described as a function of their genes and environmental factors (sorry God, no room for you here).

Putting aside references by Dr Gabor Mate, Physician, author. Portland society, to Israyhelli mothers ‘trauma’ before the ’67 war, or those of Dr James Gilligan, Former director of the Centre for the Study of Violence at Harvard Medical School, who mentions the idyllic Kibbutzim (of which many probably reside on stolen Palestinian land), Dr Robert Sapolsky, Professor of Neurological Sciences, Stanford University, suddenly brings in an obvious reference to religion by offering a bipolar choice:

“Whether life is basically about sin or about beauty. Whether the afterlife will carry a price as to how we live our lives or it’s irrelevant.”

Everyone likes beauty and of course wants to be around beautiful things, hence the ‘answer’ to Sapolsky’s question is to go with beauty. Sin therefore was incorrect. Having rejected sin, a follow up false conclusion is put before us that because sin (i.e. religion) is wrong, we must ditch the idea of the afterlife and a price to pay. Summary: life as lived via religion is irrelevant. Don’t bother wasting time thinking deeper about either God or religion, being thought of by many as being beautiful, or good practising people of faith being beautiful individuals and so on. So great stuff Zeitgeist. Remember this?

“You’re either with us or with the terrorists.”

Oh hum, Choices choices choices.

Right. The mental anchor has been set. Now comes a reinforcement, i.e. part two, “Social Pathology, The Market“, and boy does this take the cake.

Dr John McMcMurtry Professor Emeritus (of philosophy) University of Guelph initialises this part setting the scene with the fact that the economic system is collapsing. McMurtry gives an “explanation” how this comes about, by talking about only two men: John Locke and Adam Smith.

McMurtry mentions Locke’s treatise about private property, and eventually a shot of a document entitled “Two Treatises of Government: In the former, The Falfe Principles and Foundation of Sir Robert Filmer” appears, which makes me wonder why that is shown and not Locke’s actual treatise ???. On Locke, McMurtry mentions the three provisos for the justification of private property, the second of which is shown in the shot below

But isn’t the second proviso actually the one BEFORE the part that’s highlighted? i.e.

Anyone can through his labour come to own as much as he can use in a beneficial way before it spoils; anything beyond this is more than his share and belongs to others.

I rather think it is. However, there’s no word ‘God’ there, and that such a prominent word ‘God’ gets tagged along with ‘spoil’ and ‘destroy’ in the next sentence is just too irresistible. My guess is, most people never noticed what Zeitgeist did, and casually accepted the visuals were matching McMurtry’s words.

To fair to McMurtry at this point, he actually gave the correct proviso, verbally saying

“you [i.e. us humans] must not let it spoil”

which is indeed the part immediately before the highlighted section. McMurthy hasn’t mentioned God at all… yet… but Zeitgeist did it for him.

How devious. How generous.

McMurtry then says, accompanied with the screen-shot below:

“–cut–
Well He drops them. He drops them like that. Right in one sentence he says, well once the introduction of money came in by men’s tacit consent, then it became – and he doesn’t say all the provisos are cancelled (!!!), they’re erased [raised??] – but that’s what happens. So now we have not product(s) and you property earned by your own labour, oh now, money buys labour now. There’s no longer consideration of whether these enough left over for others, there’s no longer consideration of whether it spoils because he says ‘well money’s likes silver and gold and gold can’t spoil therefore money’s can’t be responsible for waste’ –cut– which is  ridiculous, were not talking about money and silver were talking about what its effects are. It’s one non-sequitur after another. Just the most startling logical ledger[ledgered?] domain that he gets away with here. But it fits the interests of capital owners.”

If you read the screen-shot above, do you think McMurtry is actually accurate in saying Locke dropping those provisos? To me, the text preceeding the highlighted text is being quite specific/contextualised. Locke seems to be talking about a specific case where money prevents a man from laying title to land, land which has already been claimed by somebody else. Because the land was unworked, the land must have been in excess of the original claimant, hence original claimant has lost the right to claim that land. The new claimant – now working the land – (and therefore because he is working it shows that land insn’t in excess for him) has the legitimate claim. But in the presence of money, i.e. the ‘monetisation’ of the land, whereby a monetary value assigned to the LAND, then the new claimant now loses the right to the land because he didn’t pay the ascribed monetary value for it. And it is this monetary situation which is allowed to persist by the rest of society.

That’s my analysis of the passage shown, and to me, VERY different from what McMurtrys interpretation. OK, I’ve not read it the whole document, but I think the paragraph is enough. Whose analysis, mine or McMurtry’s  do you think is in closer agreement to the text in the screen shot?

So the monetisation at work here harms or alter the natural and fair provisos about excess.

But say that I’m wrong, and McMurtry was correct, and money did indeed ‘drop’ the provisos, then all that Locke had said before, instantly becomes irrelevant and he has just negated his own advocacy of a just system of property rights. Also, given this effect of money (in various forms) was around long before Locke and in the domain Locke lived amongst, then those provisos could only refer to times or cultures so far removed from Locke’s society that his treatise would have virtually no applicability and hence be irrelevant! Hence, my belief that the interpretation of Locke on this point doesn’t make any sense.

And if you didn’t catch it, McMurtry said: Locke NEVER said those provisos were dropped. There’s a good reason for that John, and I’ve just explained it above. My experience of philosophers is they often shine new lights on what people said before, but sometimes the message gets changed in the process and hence has hardly valid.

Besides, money has ALWAYS bought labour or the products of labour.

So I disagree very much with John McMurtry here, as I do about his accusation of non-sequitur. However McMurtry never said anything about God in respect of Locke so far,  but Zeitgeist did.

The cuts are a bit annoying too, reducing ones confidence in Zeitgeis’ts honesty here., but still, it seems McMurtry’s point is generally coming across.

Then he moves onto Adam Smith, reading, unjustifiably IMHO, between Smiths lines.

44m25s:

Then Adam Smith came along, and what he adds is  a religion to this  ‘Lock started with God made it all this way, this is Gods right’ and now we get also with Smith coming along he says its not only Gods  – I mean he’s not saying this but this is what’s happening philosophically in principle – he’s saying its not only a question of private property – that’s all now pre-supposed, its given, and threes there money investors that buy labour – given, that there’s no limit to how much they can buy of other mans labour how much they can accumulate how much inequality – that’s all given now. And so he now comes along and what what his big idea is – and again it’s just introduced in parenthesis, en passent, – when people put out the goods for sale and others, the supply and other people buy them with then with the demand and so forth, how do you we have supply equalling demand and demand equalling supply, how can they come into equilibrium, and that is one of the central motions of economics is, [Moves forward, cementing the point] how do they come into equilibrium and he says it’s the invisible hand of the MARKET –possible cut!!–

… that brings them into equilibirum. So now we have God as actually immiment

he just didn’t give the rights to property and how, all this ‘ware with all’ (?), and its natural rights

 of doing all that Locke said, now we have the system itself as God.

In Fact Smith And Smith says when he talks – and you’ll never find this Quote, you have to read the whole “Enquiry into the wealth of Nations” — audio CUTS– He says the scantiness(?) of subsistence sets limits to the reproduction of the poor and that nature can deal with this in no other way than elimination of their children. And So he anticipated evolutionary theory in the worse sense that that will apply this is well before Darwin, And so he called them the “Race of Laborers” so you can see there was inherent racismt built in here. There was an inherent acceptance, life blindness to kill innumerable children, and he thought that ‘well that’s the invisible hand making supply\ meet demand and demand meet supply, So see what how wise God is. [Pics of FACTUAL rubbish tip appears] So you can see a lot of the really very life destructive eco-genocidal things that are going on now have in a way a thought gene back in Smith II.

Now, I’ve listened to this section again and again and taken note of obvious cuts in McMurtry’s dialogue. In the build up to the very important thing McMurtry says, i.e.  “the system itself as God“, Zeitgeist conjures religious images before your eyes and actually inverts what is being said. Zeitgeist gives the impression it’s God that’s the system, or the system OF God Himself is behind Smithsonian economics, but McMurthy disn’t actually say that. McMurtry is saying (read the extra transcription below) that Smith or the people that took up Smiths work (Smithsonians) are replacing God’s system.

Do you agree Zeitgeist has inverted it? [Remember God, ‘presumably’ fair would probably ascribe the fairness principles of Locke wrote in his provisos).

Zeitgeist is deliberately punching below the  belt here.

And McMurtry is being somewhat honest in repeatedly highlighting his interpretations or beliefs of what L&S said,  reminding us L&S didn’t actually say them.
Zeitgeist takes over:

“Adam Smith never fathomed that the most profitable economic sector on the planet would eventually be in the arena of financial trading or so called investment, where money itself is simply gainsed by the movement of other money in an arbitraty game whihc holds zero product merit to society…   Fundamental: money is treated as a commodity in and of itself… Money is pursued for the sake of money and nothing else.  The underlying idea which was mysterously qualified by Adam Smith with his religious (Zeitgeists emphasis) declaration of ‘the invisible hand’

Oh I am pretty sure the father of modern economics, Smith, fathomed that – at least in some respect, given the historical ripples of usury and mercantile’s throughout Europe, since, say, from 1517 onwards in Europe.

As for use of the the word ‘mysterious’, is the use of the word ‘mysterious’ appropriate?  It sounds nice and acts as a testicle grabber and its supposed to connect with or reinforce with Zeitgeist says afterwards is the “religious declaratioon of the invisible hand”  – Wait a minute, Smith never declared that the ‘invisible hand’ had to be the hand of God. That’s Zeitgeist’s projection upon what Smith said. Well if Zeitgrist says he did, then so it must be – right?

Zeitgeist says “ALL economic systems are said to be use of money for monetary gain.” which is kind of true but is it true in the evil scheme kind of way Zeitgeist is trying to envelope you in, i.e. one that’s put down to God (via Smiths invisible hand)? No. Money is not the root of all evil. Abuse of money is a part of some evil – but nobody likes grey areas.Zeitgeist’s shows off his emporers new clothes with this statement as BEFORE Smith (allow me:) ‘made his mysterious declaration‘, the same economic system was already in motion. So in fact, it’s not Smith who MADE this. And if you ‘defend’ Zeitgeist here, and say “well yeah, Zeitgeist is saying it’s Gods system” then you have just admitted that God exists, just that you are calling God evil. And in fact Zeitgeist does the same, trying to pin the evil environmental and genocidal eugenic economic systems on God too. But Zeitgeist has put forward the view that God doesn’t exist. How then can he legitimately claim it’s God’s fault and God is evil?

The Zeitgest movies contain many of these almost schoolboyis ploys.

But to some,
what Zeitgeist decrees, is.
Hallelujah

ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD 2011

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Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra & Miraj

Comments about the last Q&A fielded by the dear Sheikh:

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The world of Islam today does NOT have a nuclear deterrent.

Pakistan would NOT launch a nuclear counterstrike in retaliation against a country launching a nuclear attack on a Muslim nation. It has no military pact with any country.

Even if it did have such a desire to do so (despite never any sign of Pakistani ultra brotherhood for any other Islamic nation throughout the whole of Pakistan’s history) then it simply doesn’t have the technological capability to do so.

And even if it did have the capability to do so it would NOT do so because to those presiding over it’s nuclear force are NOT anything other than pro-western in character.

And even if these people whose thumbs could press the nuclear button were not so pr-western they could not press the button as the use of a nuclear weapon would constitute a monumental act of Haram.

Sheikh Imran is very wrong to speak of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons as though it is something Muslims should express sorrow for if, despite all the above, Pakistan’s nuclear weapon capability was to fall.

If Pakistan itself was initially nuked (and why on earth would it be when it’s despotic leaders crawn cap in hand to their western masters) then the fact it was nuked in the first place would surely see another strike back on Pakistan for daring to retaliate, followed by a third strike and so on against Pakistan to prevent ANY more Pakistani retaliatory strikes.

Pakistan, it’s people and many millions in neighbouring countries would die should Pakistan EVER launch such a horrible weapon.

There are a number of deep discussions as to the existence and apparent need for nuclear weapons. But the contest that the good Sheikh puts them in are IMHO invalid.

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Thanks dear friend for the following vodeos of Sheikh Imran Hosein talking at Ampang 24 June 2011
Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra & Miraj Part 1/8
Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra & Miraj Part 2/8
Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra & Miraj Part 3/8
Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra & Miraj Part 4/8
Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra and Miraj Part 5/8

Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra and Miraj Part 6/8

Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra & Miraj Part 7/8

Sheikh Imran Hosein The Strategic Importance of Isra & Miraj Part 8/8

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Here’s a juicy conspiracy theory for you.

Updated

Statement: Unless we experience personal involvement, unfortunately we are hostage to what information others decide to reveal. End statement.

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The official version of 9-11 is something only a moron would believe. Yes, there are many people who believe it, but there are many who don’t.

The number of people who didn’t buy 911 was deemed unacceptable, they posed a real danger to maintaining the belief the bulk morons held.

‘Unfortunately’, it’s quite difficult to pull off a false flag (FF), because to hood-wink an increasingly aware, discontent, sceptical and WWW empowered population, you simply must make (or synthesise) credible strings-of-involvement/culpability to those you wish to blame, i.e. people who really, had nothing to do with it.

Use of patsies/stooges is perhaps the most powerful and basic way to create these strings – be the patsies aware [via Radicalisation manipulation; =difficult] of what’s going to go down or not [engage them in a oover story; =much easier] of what they were really being asked to do.

And so an ‘effect multiplier’ idea was born to try and maximise success at pulling off a FF.

As part of your FF, you deliberately incorporate questionable issues into the initial event.
This has a number of advantages, only some of which are mentioned here.

1a) It muddies the waters disguising the real event of that day.

1b) People spend large amounts of time chasing these deliberate inconsistencies – some ending stranded in a field of ambiguity.

2) It allows you to create a ‘truther’ group to gain ‘trust’ amongst other would-be dangerous ‘truthers’, people who may actually uncover your can of worms.

Through your group, you can dribble information – via official channels – according to your requirements, and whether you set up your ‘truther’ group or not, you can achieve the same effect by cleverly laying the same decoy trail of crumbs that you’re pretty sure will be picked up and followed along the path you so desire.

In relation to 2), there’s probably times when you need to silence ‘truther competitors’ out of the way. This can be achieved in a number of ways, e.g. by making fake truther competition groups simply for the purpose of being knocked down – when necessary, hence raising the stature of your chosen (owned or guided) truther group.

You can also set up people whose character is questionable, get them to parrot some line (probably along with some of the truth mixed in with it) destroy their character and the truth they were actually saying {although this is dangerous, you don’t really want any truth to come out at all} is destroyed with them in the process. Kill the messenger to kill the message.

Overall, The most successful way to get away with a FF, is, after the event takes place, to continue to drip more false trails into the mix to hook even more people, ‘truthers’, into a false trail.

Also, as time rolls on, you have the option of destroying some of these false trails simultaneously with the REAL version of events of course – better still only <i>parts</i> of the REAL story!.

Few of the (already)few would notice REAL events of the FF being thrown in the bin, obscured by the adjacent other versions/elements speeding their way into the garbage bin.

So you don’t actually ‘fix’ the narrative. A narrative is necessary, and it pacifies most of the aforementioned believers, but the narrative itself is deliberately false to allow for this incredibly empowering FF management dynamic, while using the minimum number of people to keep the whole thing under wraps.

Most in the establishment will of course follow the official narrative, no matter what crap it is. the real trick lies with the non-official ‘truthers’ and is where attention is naturally focused.

Update: Oh, and on 7/7, I have to say, it seems the ‘truth’ movement is rather split along two lines: One where mention and question of Israyhells role in 7/7 gets a good venting, and the second, pro-Israyhell camp, that launches tricks, tactics and ad hominen attacks on those probing the Israyhelli line, or indeed, anyone else who has given criticism of those who genocided and stole their way into Palestine.

It’s also quite telling that these attacks are practically a one way street, and are hardly reciprocated by those putting  attention on Israyhell.

All these instances add up, and they will do so for a reason.

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THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT FIAT MONEY AND THE BANKING SYSTEM!

Presented in the medium some people have as their primary source of learning.
Whatever’s needed for the breakthrough I guess.

h_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCdlsZLNSJE

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An increasingly mainstream station criticising the mainstream.

An increasingly mainstream station (Russia Today or is it Russia Television, RT) criticising the mainstream, but mildly interesting anyway, and I’m all for more criticism of those who falsely claim to represent us.

NEW: Mainstream Miss, TheAlyonaShow
Having a go at my prediction of the future 2012 US election winner, Sarah Palin

h_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GwtXEzjvZY

Nuclear Reactor Meltdown(s) in the USA ! 6-22-11 Gov’s let industry slide on safety violations!
{p.s. dunno why it repeats. This issue makes me wonder if it’s what catalysed criticism of RT recently amongst the usual British journo suspects}

h_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvUpV5pO4Fg

Shades of the Listening Post on Al Jazeera English perhaps?

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Seymour Hersh: Jewish Money Controls Presidential Candidates

h_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ZDabT6r3w

Now if certain people said “Jewish” money here, they’d get all the usual pig-muck thrown their way, but even if one was to caveat what Hersh said for him, that pig-muck would come ones way too because one simply posted Hersh saying what he did.

Mind magic.

It’s the bankers stupid!

But not those ‘those’ bankers – God forbid.

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Brian (William) Haw R.I.P.(7 January 1949 – 18 June 2011)

BRIAN (WILLIAM) HAW, 7 January 1949 – 18 June 2011

From Allah we come and to Allah we return.

It comes as a big shock to find out that Peace Campaigner and amazing human bein,g Brian Haw, has passed away. Brian was many more times the man most of us are and experienced years of discomfort by taking physical action to try and stop the slaugher of people by the so called ‘coalition of willing’. Brian actions put to shame talk-shops like myself.

I will miss him and his selfless deeds.

Here’s a link to Andy Worthington‘s tribute to Brian. Please give it a read if Brian meant anything to you.

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Palestine: The Missing Narrative. Paolo Barnard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IJ-OkF90pk

Italian Middle East correspondent Paolo Barnard explains the crucial missing narrative on the Palestinian struggle against the Israeli occupation state.”The fate of the Palestinian people was sealed 40 years before the Holocaust…”.History, facts, quotes, to understand the real story behind today’s tragic events.

Source: Re-Uploaded from Paolo Barnard’s Channel on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/paolobarnardvideos

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lwtc247 comments:

Excellent Fact based Video.

Terra nullius (a land of nobody) originates from the horrific man made Talmud that doesn’t classify non-Jews as humans. Therefore, according to that thinking, then Palestine was of course empty, the racism inherent by Zionists is a consequence of that. Thankfully many Jews (but mostly only the non-empowered ones) distance themselves from the filthy aspects of that library, even though many Jews do hold varying degrees of Zionism.

Paolo forgets to mention the strong Christian Zionist movement in the 19th Century. See: http://vimeo.com/4625542Paolo said Balfour said nothing about the Palestinians. That is incorrect. The Balfour declaration contains:

“…it being clearly understoon taht nothing shall be done to prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine…”

Clearly giving some words of reassurance to the Palestinians (which Rev. Stephen says were knowingly insincere). I like the way Paolo exposes the British plots to get the Paletinan farmers to sell to the Jews and revealing that public land and water, salt and electricity awareded to the Jews almost exclusively to the Jews.He does say about the time of WWII, “The Jews in 1939 rightly flock to Palestine” – I disagree that it was right that they should have done this. The move to the United States was the right move, which many of them made.I strongly suspect the British didn’t just find themselves one day on the wrong foot. My suspicions are that the British leaving was part of the plan. The constant empowerment by the British of the Jewish Zionists via military training, allocation of resources and of course the British establishments ties to Zionism itself  suggest – at least to me they do – that the Brits deliberately made this situation to provide them with an excuse to leave. The utter inaction towards Zionist terrorist acts, in which British people were killed and assassinated and the willingness of the UK to allow the singing of Zionist lies that Israyhell was created due to the Jewish holocaust.

I am very happy he says “The Arabs missed an opportunity for peace with the UN partiotion plan in ’47… that is a LIE” and he goes on to show haw the UN tried to sell the Palestinans a sack of sewage.

Also good was the mention of the Jordanian betrayal of the Palestinians. Read this excellent book.

Gaza: Dec 2008 Jan 2009 Cast Lead also shown to have been a planned event.

“Deception is the dominant theme. Why? Well it’s very simple… To manipulate Israeli public opinion into backing one of the most injust realtiies in the modern world – the continued ethnic cleansing and occupation of Palestine and to the same thig with western public opinion, that must continue to back this unjust reality the occupation and ethnic cleansing of Palestine…

…The Zionist project had always wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestine and to use any means to do this.”

Excellent.

Thank you Paolo.

One more thing… The ‘ovulation’ of Israyhell, which Paolo and Stephen(surprisingly) misses out on when the Christian Church opened the floodgates to Usury, buy way of John Calvin and so forth.

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Zionists equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism – they’re not alone

– Much wisdom here, although I disagree with the description of Israyhell being a sovereign state.

You tube description: It’s Israeli Apartheid Week in Winnipeg, Canada and many other cities and towns around the world. In Winnipeg, Israeli Apartheid Week 2011 is taking place on the campuses of the University of Manitoba and the University of Winnipeg.

This clip features a presentation by Howard S. Davidson, Associate Professor of Extended Education at the University of Manitoba and member of Independent Jewish Voices (Canada). He spoke at a workshop entitled “Israeli Apartheid 101” at the University of Winnipeg on March 14, 2011.

Professor Davidson demolishes the arguments of pro-Israel apologists who equate support for Palestinian rights with anti-Semitism. Further, he demonstrates that the term “Israeli apartheid” is a legitimate part of the political discourse in Israel, even while those who use it in Canada and the United States are vilified by Israel’s North American supporters.

And there’s this also : Gilad Atzmon: Panel Event -Zionism, Jewishness and Israel, Is Now Online (Must Watch) http://vimeo.com/23452051

Maybe some people, who really should know much much better, can see something in here of their own behaviour that can learn from. Recent experience however, seriously makes me doubt that.

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Jesus / Isa – alahi salam

On occasions, I feel Muslims ‘lose’ something when it comes to religion. I am speaking about the second last prophet Jesus or Isa (E-sa) peace be upon him.

Muslims believe that Christianity, as we know it today, and its history, has suffered a corruption of Jesus’ (pbuh) message. They believe this is one reason why the had the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) whose recitation of Divine revelation is encoded in the Qur’an, whose message today is the same as what it was almost 1400 years ago, and is protected so by God.

Why ‘bother’ with what is said of Jesus (pbuh) then when a particular issue may contain distortiortions and errors?

Indeed, I was never able to really understand why what I’ve always thought were Christians discussing the New Testament, identified the books of the apostles as having been written some 50,60,70,80,90 or so years after the ‘death’ of Jesus (pbuh) yet they never seemed concerned with that to me seemed like that very time sequence suggesting that in there weren’t actually written by the apostles. I can’t understand how an apostle who was x+50, x+60, x+70… years old (where x=their age while at the last day of of Jesus) could himself have written it, or even if he did write it, how could such writings be accurate. I know this issue isn’t ‘new’ and OK, the Grace of God could have made these things happen, but I don’t think there is any evidence or indeed, any claim that that is indeed the case. For some time now, I’ve held the assumption that the books of the apostles were ‘ghost’ written on behalf  of the words/techings of the apostles, but again, I’ve never seen any claim of this by the Church.

In addition to the above oddities, that the Church – a still generally beneficial force in society, despite various corruptions – then allowed usury,causing Christians to thereafter adopt, is something unless I am mistaken, which Jesus (pbuh) abhored [Note: Some Muslims also practice usury, is a part of which is in something they call Riba, a sin of such seriousness that it invites Gods War against you]. The acceptance/normalisation of usury struck a severe blow to Christianity from which it argueably has never recovered, and doubtless, has aided the huge fall from grace as a faith in the eyes of some Muslims.

And in recent times we the Judeo-Christian allaince when for millenia, generally Christians viewed Jews in similiar, yet milder way, from how Jews viewed Christains.

All of which have contributed to Muslims distancing themselves from the Christian faith.

In recent years, I have come across people who call themselves Christians but don’t seem to cede to the Church, instead, believing in Christianity according to their own analysis and understanding, and of the significance of Jesus. [These people could always have existed, perhaps it’s just my age, exposure and social cirles that is makeing them more visible to me]. Personally, what they are doing appeals to me [As it is increasingly doing so in the disorganised ‘organised religion stricture’ of Islam. I think these Christians are able to ‘see’ some fictions propagates by the Church. However, they still seem likely to adopt other distortions about Jesus – like some indulging the usurers [Muslims too remember!] and not following Jewish custom e.g. Sabbath, circumcision, eating Kosher and so on. But I don’t think in this say any age that anyone is pure – that goes for Muslims too.

My general opinion of Muslims is that they tend to take on a facile view of Christianity and don’t see those ‘independent’  Christians mentioned just above, and from my experience of these people, they are very amicable and  have significant overlap with Muslim perspectives and teachings [Not really surprisin]. Thin thoughts of Muslims about their Christian counterparts – most significantly in Muslim dominated populations – unnecessarily widens the gap between them, and that’s a shame.

A similar thing – primarily form distortions embedded in their religions – exists with (real) Jewish-Christian and Jewish-Muslim relations, but I’d say the philosophical gap between Jews and Christians as well as Jews and Muslims is greater than that of Christians and Muslims.

Jesus (pbuh) does appear in the Qur’an and in the saying of the last Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Despite the possible explanations as to why above, it’s a pity and wonder why Muslims gove so little attention to Jesus’ story (pbuh), but other Prophets like Ismail (so called ‘Father of the Arabs’) and Moses and Abraham are given more (IMO) significance.

I get the feeling that this may be because: If an increase in discussions by Muslims of Jesus (pbuh) were to take place, it would be percieved as “being Christian”. To me, that’s a real shame, especially when one thinks about Jesus (pbuh) and his influence on the world today [I can’t here reference Paul / Saul of Tarsus, regarded as being the one to ‘establish/grow’ the religion of Christianity, being beyond the scope of this post]. After (possibly) Muhammad, the next most Influential man influencing the world today is Jesus (peace and blessings be to both of them), yet Muslims largely ‘whitewash’ him.

Frankly, it’s hard to accept the Church’s distortions and corruptions are a good enough reason for any ‘whitewashing’ of Jesus, and actually I don’t think Muslims have ever spent much thought at all as to how to weigh-up/assess Jesus’s role in their lives. That the religion of Islam was deemed to be completed very shortly before the death of Muhammad (saw) seems to make some think that Islam is all the need at the cost of looking for overlap with their Christian brothers.

To me, the influence of Jesus across the world (even when one factors in a corrupt Church) is testament that what this man did and said is of the most extraordinary power and significance. It’s amazing that the corruptions and distortions piled upon Jesus are incapable of destroying the way he is revered, and I don’t think he is revered because of those distortions.

Jesus performed miracles. As far as I know, Muhammad (saw) didn’t – although he did go on a miraculous journey – Al-Isra and Al-Miraj. I think Jesus was able to perform miracles so that people had no excuse not to fast-track themselves to belief in God, perhaps a sign that Jesus’ task was much more of a challenge than what Muhammad (saw) faced [It must be noted that Muhammad (saw) did have a very rough time himself in his duty as a Prophet; It wasn’t easy by any means]. The miracle worker was clearly special and should be listened to.

Why is it said that Allah(SWT) commands that the Muslims do not make judgements as to the fate of the people of the book? Some, in an attempt to shy away from this, many ask ‘which book?’ to which I propose, the bible at the time of Muhammads Divine revelations had not changed significantly from that time onwards. It makes more sense to think God was referring to the Divine scriptures, the ‘books’, at the time of revelation onwards which I’d say, works its way down to the Christians and Indeed Jews of  today. It also seems straightforward to think it’s the uncorrupted elements of those scriptures which still maintain a tie of Christians and Jews to God. Yet, some Muslims seem ‘quite edgy’ about all this.

When Muslims were being persecuted, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) sent some Muslims into Christian lands (Abyssinia) for refuge. They were protected. Isn’t this simple aspect of the history of Islam in itself a strong indication of the natural affinity of Christians and Muslims [And that Jews were given refuge in Muslim Arab lands also indicative of something?]

As I begin to end this post, hopefully my Muslim readers will not succumb to such instant dismissal from what’s said above and will consider these questions:-

1) Why is it Jesus/Isa (peace be upon him) that will return to ultimately re-establish mans solid relationship to God in the hearts of ALL mankind?

2) Why is it said that Muhammad (saw) is calimed to have said that of all the prophets, Jesus had a special place in the Prophets heart ? (I’m paraphrasing)

3) Aren’t many Muslims themselves already following distortions/corrutions in disorganised Islam? – Remember about the ‘sects’ within Isla, yet on the whole, we don’ really reject other Muslims, so why (when it happens) do we reject Christians?

4) Even some atheists brought up in Christian environments, and hence take some ‘Christian stuff’ on board, can be a fine example of a free and moral upstanding people. For some reason, Rodney Shakespeare comes to mind.

5) When Jesus (pbuh) dies, who will be be buried next to?

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To some Muslims, they will instigate a mind-block about what is written here. They will dismiss it, believing it may ‘rock their Islamic’ faith, when actually I am trying to show them on the contrary, their faith can be strengthened. They may think it’s an attempt to ‘convert them the Christianity’. It most certainly isn’t, and if you thought as much, I suspect you ave a significant flaw in your understanding of Islam [I don’t pretend amateur ‘Muslim me’ is immune].

I believe that what I have written here is important and should be thought about and if what I say is wrong, then only by undertaking honest and thoughtful analysis of what I say will show that to be wrong.

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