7-7 Researcher Tom Secker – On the Edge

I’ve had some free time to catch up on some videos downloaded some time ago, and I’ve just finished watching a program called On the Edge with guest Tom Secker.

http://www.   youtube   .com/watch?v=ql59RPRL4v0

Tom, creator of the claimed 7/7: Seeds of Deconstruction, was recommended to the program by J7T, i.e. the July 7 truth campaign. J7T are a small group of people – and they can get extremely agitated when shitty Israyhell gets a mention, they have poo-pooed “Zionist” connections not so long after 7/7 despite today J7T claiming We don’t have a clue what happened that day – but if you’ll excuse the liberty: We are pretty sure Zionist Israyhell is not involved . It’s not that surprising that Tom was recommended by them because Tom pushes the same ambiguity that J7T do, but in a reasoned and respectable way devoid of non-sequiturs, diversions and/or false accusations.

Tom is asked about the report of the supposed shootings at Canary Wharf (CW).  He avoids discussion on that. Well, actually, he does and he doesn’t avoid discussion of that issue. He ‘discusses’ it in so far as he mentions it in terms of other non-CW events.

In the interview, (28:48 start) Tom is asked about “the question of who was shot at Canary Wharf ” Note: The host “alex:g” should have added “media reports of…”.

Tom says

28:59

“One of the various things that came out in the reporting on the day of 7/7, was this notion that there had been some kind of police operation at CW, and there was even this rumour that suicide bombers had been shot there by police marksman.” Now that may or may not have happened.”

29:19

“I’m dubious [about the reports] to be honest…”

“…there’s a lot of different rumours going around on 7/7…”

“..Again, it’s a possibility [the shootings], but it’s something we have to have more solid evidence to go on than simply a few media reports saying this way or that”.

Was that a discussion of the possible shootings?

It didn’t look like it to me. It appeared that Tom was trying to ascribe the ‘CW shootings’ to rumour. Fine, but there is no way he can say for certain the reports were actually a rumour. And immediately after this, the discussion moves onto the return tickets. Tom himself says there’s a contradiction here mentioning the governments narrative binging up ONE report in The Mirror about the ‘return tickets’. He then goes on to elaborate on the ‘problem’ talking about the tickets as factual. Now as far as I remember, I’ve read people claiming the CW ‘shootings’ were mentioned on TV and they appeared in one or more newspapers. Tom discusses this one lone report as if it is factual giving credence to The Mirror’s return tickets, but unevenly didn’t apply this to the more reported CW shootings.

You know what?

It doesn’t really matter. Tom’s an individual. He is free to make his own judgements on what he thinks is strong evidence and what he thinks is something to be avoided. He exercises this liberty here regarding the CW ‘shootings, and makes the personal call that it’s something he finds not productive to discuss. OK. That’s a reasonable position to adopt. People shouldn’t throw horrible slander and lies against him if he says something others don’t happen to agree with.

34:44

“Obviously I have a suspicion that 7/7 was some kind of black-op. Otherwise I wouldn’t have made that film”

Here we see J7T being uneven. They recommended Tom who openly admits he has suspicions (see also 2:31 later) , but J7T fiercely attack and repeatedly libel other who have suspicions, one summised because they are suspicions+Israyhell.

Tom goes on to warn (in an advisory capacity) that independently formulated alternative narratives ‘need to know what covert-op looks like’. This is curious. Who has proposed an alternative conspiratorial narrative and doesn’t know the history of black-ops? It seems likely to me that anyone concluding 7/7 is a black-op/false-flag, then they would almost certainly have read up on other things like the Reichstag fire, Gulf of Tonkin incident, Nero’s Rome etc. I have extreme doubts someone would compose a narrative of 7/7 with only knowledge of 7/7. Perhaps Tom was alluding to something else, because what he said here isn’t particularly logical.

Tom mentions ‘people have pushed the connection between 9/11 and 7/7 for  various reasons’ (???)… ” I wonder what reasons Tom knows of ?, anyway…

36:02

“…Particularly with the 7/7 story, what’s so obvious to me, is the number of red herrings there are {I’ve seen that line almost verbatim elsewhere}..Number of things that just been taken down a particular path and it’s then turned out to be untrue.

Well Tom, I seriously doubt you know of any ‘red-herrings in progress’ but it would be nice of you would share them. A other ‘truthers’ have asserted this red herring thing but of course don’t know of any red herrings in progress or have zero proof (other than a reasonable sense of suspicion). But it makes them look smart by pretending they do KNOW these red herrings. What’s more, by asserting red-herrings are part of the 7/7 narrative, Tom is really strengthening his own suspicions that 7/7 was a black-op’ as red-herrings are deliberate acts. And that’s ok. As a thinking human being, he has the perfect right to have those feelings. It would be wise to wonder who, why and how all ‘those’ red herrings are put in place.

Tom continues:

“and the CCTV is a great example of that. You mentioned the conspiracy files and what you there is they got Nick Kollerstrom (NK) who is one of the people who thinks 7/7 was an inside job, was a covert op, and he’d spent three years basically going around saying there is no CCTV from London…”

Excuse me Tom. While I’m not that up to speed with what exactly NK did in those three years, I suspect it was a lot more than ‘just going around saying’ words which perhaps conjure up some homeless man making wild suggestions. Perhaps this would be a bit more accurate(?): “He’d spent three years personally researching, interviewing, gathering evidence and wirting on the subject in the belief there was no CCTV from London – which given none was released for years, wasn’t such an unreasonable thing to do.”  – or “going around saying there is no CCTV from London” If you want to stick to Toms description.

“…those four guys weren’t even in london that day, and claiming that one frame we’d seen from Lution was a fake. So what did they do? They roll out CCTV from Luton showing a nice long stretch of action so, kind of proving that it’s authentic, I mean I suppose the whole thing could be faked, but taking it at face value, and then they show him CCTV of these four guys walking through Kings Cross and he’s flabbergasted, ‘cos he’s been rolled down a cerain path only for them to cut him off.”

Kind of proving it’s authentic? huh? Is it authentic or not? Tom himself later allows for the possiblity that it wasn’t authentic. So Tom, you should really have said perhaps “suggesting the the audience that it was authentic”. Tom again is taking something at face value, which is what NK did before the footage was released – i.e. at face value there wasn’t going to be any footage. And Tom does say various people had requested that exact footage. Tom is impaling himself on his own sword somewhat. To the best of my recollection, the Luton video DOES NOT show the alleged ‘4 bombers’. If you can make them out to me and prove the tape is genuine, then ok, your words make sense.

As for the single frame, MANY people inc some in J7 made statements suggesting the single still frame outside Luton train station was fake, what with bars going through bodies and strange leg dirextions and no distinguishable faces, or if you prefer Toms description again “[NK] claimed the photos were fake” – which by the way there isn’t any proof that they are not fakes!

Maybe Nick did make a boob on the CCTV in London thing. Like any serious investigation, the leading model can then under improvement to fit the known evidence. But of course to those ‘loving liberal’ truthers who hate NK and wouldn’t hesitate to fling muck at him [Nick suspects Israyhelli connections] would use that to dismiss everything NK has ever done or said re 7/7.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it Tom. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that what you find ‘strange’ will eventually be given a palusible explaination. Don’t worry, I’m sure J7T won’t hate you, after all, you don’t mention the “I” word. So readers will have to excuse me for thinking that it wasn’t unreasonable to think there was going to be no CCTV footage. I’d hazard a guess that this crossed almost everyone’s mind at some stage. (c.f. 9/11, pentagon, hotel camera)

The ambiguous approach does have it’s merits, but as I’ve pointed out a couple of times before, it itself is limiting. An alternative narrative based on the facts is inherently closer to the real truth than some amorphous ‘blurr all’ ambiguity. Of course, alternative narratives (subject to human prejudice and biases) can fall foul of information in the hands of people(government) who themselves have an interest in trying to de-rail truth seekers, should the govt be involved with the deliberate killing of civilians. That said, it is mightily peculiar that those in possession of such material (which independent researchers can only scratch and scrape for) can only deliver a narrative that is less plausible than those independent researchers.

It tirns out that Nick probably made a mistake going on a BBC program intent to scorn independent narratives (while glossing over the govt’s Swiss cheese narrative) and J7 didn’t do this to their credit (one wonders why the BBC didn’t take the liberty of picking up on J7’s alternative narratives anyhow). My guess is Nick though he could publicise the problems with the govt’s narrative and show people there was an alternate explanation. But still, we all make mistakes.

Note: If someone proposing a ‘shitty Israyhell’ connection of 7/7 had a name like “alex:g” I can imagine the stinking ridicule that would flow their way from some quarters. Such an “Israyhell’s involved” researcher would also have suspicions flung at him for appearing on the mainstream media.

This interview shows clearly the rank hypocrisy amongst some who call for the truth, oops, I mean the truth(which doesn’t involve Israyhell).

2:31

“When 7/7 happened I instantly felt that this was something that didn’t really didn’t add up, that what what we were being told probably wasn’t true.”

Well done Tom for being honest and humanly flawed like the rest of us and acting on feelings.  It matters not what points I make here. Your effort to advance the truth emerging from that day is applauded.

Tom based his documentary on what he said was:

“the reported facts, at least what it is we’ve been told what reports say the media has said”

{Don’t forget the CW shootings folks}

Finally, that Jaguar, surely that’s a deliberate plant. Surely! I can’t believe the police(?) pouring over that CCTV and scruitinising it for month upon month, would not have ‘seen’ the issue of the Jag.

And what do you know, A car which appreas to be a Jag AMAZINGLY appears what also amazingly looks like a blue micra parked in Luton train station, in a helpful “visual aid” for readers see: J7T picture contained in the post A Nissan Micra Tardis?

Here’s some more of Tom’s words:

“When 7/7 happened I instantly [my emphasis] felt that this was something that didn’t really didn’t add up, that what what we were being told probably wwasn’t true.”

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29 Responses to “7-7 Researcher Tom Secker – On the Edge”


  1. 1 lwtc247 September 1, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    I’ve just had my first gander at “THE EDGE MEDIA WEBSITE”. That is Edge media who J7T contacted to recommend Tom Secker. One wonders why they put Tom up for it but not themselves.

    Anyway, it comes of interest to see that Edge media have a chemtrails page, http://www.emtvonline.co.uk/main/photogallery.php?album_id=3 sporting such photos such as “Chemtrails Putney 1” and “Chemtrails and Strange Cloud“.

    They also have a shop where you can buy ‘truther stuff’. Like Tony Gosling CD’s. You can also get ‘he of the OB1 beard’ David Bellamy CD’s too http://www.knollgardens.co.uk/images/CFS09/DavidBellamy.jpg and “Hidden Agenda” CD’s.

    Edge Media, who J7T were in contact with, also have some David Halpin videos. David has the honour of being black-listed at http://www.anti-semitism.net/ a site whose banner reads “Exposing & Fighting Against Global Anti-Semitism & Anti-Jewish Racism”

    Of course, all the p-poor ‘links’ above mean sweet FA. But to certain people in J7T and one particular staunch supporter of J7T, such stuff would be SMEAR GOLD‘ who have used virtually identical pathetic and blatantly false ‘connections’/smears to try their hardest to trash…other conspiracy researchers.

    I personally find it amazing that the “Israyhell isn’t responsible, but we don’t have a clue about 7/7 J7T” launch these ugly attacks on the ‘other’ side of 7/7 research, yet that ‘other’ side doesn’t engage in the same kind of crap.

    In my book, that’s something to keep in mind.

    I believe the main post and this little comment are fully justified, and show that some should really mind their hypocritical biased and false tongues.

  2. 2 lwtc247 September 1, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Here’s one man who faced a disgraceful attack by some ‘truthers’.
    http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=67&part=1
    Give it watch (there are 3 parts) and see the reason for the venom and and smears against this man, and how somehow he bears some responsibility for his release being a detraction from the phoney July 7th Inquest.

  3. 3 JoozEverywhere September 2, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    What a lot of tosh. If you want to let the brits and u.s. off the hook with your evidence-free assertions, it would be quicker just to admit it.

  4. 4 lwtc247 September 3, 2011 at 4:39 am

    Dear “JoozEverywhere”
    THE Brits?? and (the) U.S.? From your anonymous nickname you presumably use the descriptor “THE J’s” too.

    …Seem it before mate, sorry, it doesn’t work, but there, tosh does indeed carry some gravitas, although, as the dominant and forthright political doctrine is Zionism, I the tosh quotient isn’t as high as it could be.

    And as demonstrated in his post, what isn’t tosh are the multitudes of smear and hypocrisy.

    Cheers.

  5. 5 lwtc247 September 3, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Tom on 7/7 again and alternative narratives.
    Tom Secker Talks 7/7 On The WideShut Webcast – WideShut …

    http://wideshut.co.uk/tom-secker-talks-77-on-the-wideshut-webcast/

    22:47
    I agree with Tom Seckers good point that 7/7 Ripple Effect, RE, isn’t winnable in a court of Law. To me, 7/7 Ripple Effect should be used as a leading theory for a direction pursuit, JAH does seem to think RE is the truth – I believe he said as mch in his RichPlanetTV interview.(edit)

    Tom calls the ‘only about 50 pages long official narrative ‘tosh’, “incorrect ‘

    Maybe not exact quotes. I’m pressed for time:
    “If we trash the official narrative then jump on the back of a conspiracy theory then we are wasting everybody’s time” – Actually Tom – and please correct me if I am wrong on this – you may find that criminal investigations pursue lead threads in preference of strongest first, which is the scientific thing to do. That’s the reason I find 7/7 Ripple Effect useful and how I treat it. Some may not think it’s the strongest lead, but that would be missing the point, because A lead, whichever happens to be the strongest, is adopted and chased-up. J7T and you do NOT adopt that approach and simply point out flaws. I suspect you’ll still be only asking questions up to the moment you and the victims die.

    When/if those flaws become passable lies, your methodology won’t have a leg to stand on. If 7/7 is a lie (my belief) the state will just keep tinkering the lie until it can get away with it, and of course dragging the process out as long as they can. They will do this based on the nature of the horric crime. Who knows, given the implications of this, you may even be ‘suicided’. And what ‘questions only’ people will have to do is, eventually put the answers to those questions into a narrative – actually you already do what – the WEAKEST narrative there is – the govt narrative!. So you’re stance is self defeating, flawed and hypocritical. The Telegraph reports: “7/7 inquests: police failed to follow on ‘best lead’ to July 7 bomber Jermaine Lindsay”, and the do so for excellent reason: that is the bedrock of criminal investigation. Your method isn’t. Your curiously defended ‘come what may method’ actually implies that for hundreds if not thousands of years, investigative and scientific method are a ‘waste of… time”? Cui bono J7T/Tom is perhaps the first step in establishing a lead. Why not apply it full spectrum!

    Tom talks about Muslims not likely to trust the security forces. This is pure conjecture. It’s also plainly false. But because it’s Toms’ conjecture, he grants it more validity than say ‘Israyhelli involvement’ conjecture. Once more, Tom and some of the J7T’ers are falling on their own swords. There ane Muslims who do indeed get involved with the Security services and the police) – Tom himself says so identifying what he calls ‘double agents’.

    Tom, what a massive hole you’ve just dug and fallen into. I got the feeling a little hesitation I thought I heard shows that you too realised you’d just contradcted yourself, but you continued. You didn’t voice out the fact you scotched your own arguement. Here’s what J7T report in quoting the Independent: “Associates of Khan have confirmed his role as an interlocutor between police and youths.”. Now, assuming Tom was right, and there is Muslim suspicioun of the police and security forces – especially AFTER 7/7 (p.s. the alleged “4 bombers” may not have read about Muslim stich ups – some of my old Muslim 3rd Gen Muslims friends never gave the impression they were interested in News.current affairs) it is reasonable to suggest all it took was just ONE man to arrange by himself, a small group around him which HE convined to take part in a money earling and exciting ‘drill’. Leading candidate(!) for this, I propose, is MSK possibly ‘recruited’ and encouraged by the police through whom sadoowy affiliations trickle. MSK could well have used his friendship to persuade the other three to take part. There’s three lots of ‘suspicious against the “Non-Muslim looking” police/security services’ knocked down. Now, I find that very plausible, and although plausibility isn’t necessarily truth, I believe it demonstrates the fact that Tom could be wrong, but because he simply didn’t think of it, the stuff he ‘operates’ on makes his position harden unnecessarily, and that translates into degradation of his dismissal of 7/7 RE.

    Tom says: You start out the the alleged bombers were not bombers at all, they were patsies, they weren’t in those locations, they weren’t on those trains, they weren’t on that bus, they did not bow up bombs there. What the RE narrative says is they were actors of some sort and they thought they were playing a role of some sort in the Peter Power drill” What exactly Tom means by all this isn’t actually so clear. I doubt they KNEW of visor consultants drill, they could have just been doing it the four together. I would CERTAINLY NOT have told the four men anything about a terror drill, for reasons Tom mentioned earlier – a ‘terror’ drill could have rung 9/11 alarm bells! And if they were caught, they would have screamed “Peter Power/Visor Consultants, Terror Drill! I’m just doing a job”. Tom seems to be casting assertions onto 7/7 RE.

    Tom calls the suspicion/paranoia of young Muslim men in Britain against teh security forces as EVIDENCE. THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT EVIDENCE TOM. NO WAY. Surely you know that. It’s a hugely incorrect thing you have just said. I think this is why J7T don’t do media – in case they say something contradictory and allow people like Tom to do so instead, keeping what J7T believe to be their ‘reputation’, intact. I’ll give tom the benefit of the doubt. It’s easy to make mistakes especially in live media.

    No time left. May continue later…

  6. 6 IH8UM8 September 3, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    You contradict yourself when you forget the whole plot of Maud’s video nasty. You even seem to acknowledge that it didn’t make sense and would like to change it to your liking.

  7. 7 lwtc247 September 3, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    @IH8UM8

    Tom in the wide shut interview, says the truth movement should also look at itself critically. I’m sure he didn’t say that for fun or just to appear ‘open minded. Perhaps you could reflect on his words? Discuss the criticisms instead of your vague and unsubstantiated comments (akin to that by “JoozEverywhere”). So where;s the contradiction?

    As indicated in teh comment, I treat MD’s documentary as a lead narrative. Far better to compare what TPTB decide to tell us again that version than their own obviously flawed (and increasingly so!) narrative. I would feel no disgrace at all should a better story come my way, to adopt that – in fact I’d be rather proud to do so in light of new information. Perhaps you disagree.

    I do not say it is the truth, as a work of a man, it doubtlessly contains some errors. One thing that I find unreasonable are suggestions the men wanted to flee the country.

    I do not acknowledge that 7/7 RE makes no sense.

    So it seems to me that our wrong, twice around.

  8. 8 lwtc247 September 3, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    P.s. quite amusing to see this site being unusually searched for “Jews” UFO’s and so on.

    One wonders, but not for long.

  9. 9 IH8UM8 September 3, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you forgot what Hill was imagining “most likely” happened, that the four suspects were recruited to play a part in the Visor exercise. You gloss over how this might have been done without their knowledge, not that I rule anything out.

    Your prose style is hard to plough through to extract your intended meaning and I’m not sure I can be bothered any more.

  10. 10 lwtc247 September 3, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t understand what I wrote above (it may help if you read it slowly), let me repeat once again (or ‘gloss over’ as you put it for a second time) as to how this ‘recruitment may have happened.

    MSK, via his reported associations with the police could have been the one to recruit the other three in a drill in which Visor contestants were somehow involved. If he did actually have associations with the police, there was probably a fixed point of contact with whom he communicated. This contact/handler could have persuaded this one man, who seemed to be quite ‘integrated’ into society and commanded a face-vale respected position through his community work, to do this as a money making venture.

    If such a thing happened, there was never any need for the other three (or even MSK himself) to have known anything about Visor consultants, just as Peter Power may well not have known anything about a real act of terror that was going to occur on 7/7. Indeed, revealing what he did about his own position after 7/7 would suggest just that. It seems reasonable, at least to me it does, that PP was used like many other people were probably used on that day. If you are going to commit a criminal act of this magnitude and nature, you’re gonna want to try and minimise the number of people in the know.

    I don’t’ rule anything out either. I’m just following a lead. Actually w.r.t what Tom says, I think his two interviews are on the whole excellent. He was in the main: rational, logical and open, he punctuated his expressed thoughts with correct caveats and didn’t particularity dismiss anything, although he did seem keen not to go down certain paths. understandable – we all have out biases. I actually applaud J7T and supporters too, but I’m not going to keep stum about their negatives – of which there are a significant number.

    Now, I wonder if you demand the same explanations as to ‘glossed over’ things that the J7T camp say.

    Unless I’m mistaken JAH in his his richplanetTV interview, talked about 7/7 RE as being ‘the truth’. He may believe that. All I do is take it as the best narrative so far and one that deserves to be taken up and worked upon.

    You still don’t say how I contradicted myself and so on, and to be honest, I never thought you would. Neither did I think you would discuss some of the weak things that Tom said (in an overall good interview)

    “I’m not sure I can be bothered any more.” what could I possibly say to that?

  11. 11 IH8UM8 September 3, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Have you ever tried proof-reading your own shit? I know it would be hard going but it might help comprehension of it.

  12. 12 lwtc247 September 3, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Pleasant kinda person aren’t you?

    Still no substantiation of your earlier incorrect statements I notice, nor is there any discussion of what Tom Secker actually or of the hypocrisy coming from the J7T gang.

    Of course not, there never intention to do so, was there?

  13. 13 IH8UM8 September 3, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    It’s difficult to discuss anything with someone who uses caricatured sloganeering to the point of fatuousness and can’t even string a sentence together.

    Maybe you’d like to prove the hypocrisy you allege, but I doubt it.

  14. 14 IH8UM8 September 3, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Or maybe the hypocrisy lies in you linking to and endorsing something in a sidebar that you happily slag off in posts.

  15. 15 lwtc247 September 3, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    “Maybe you’d like to prove the hypocrisy you allege.” It’s all above, as everyone can plainly see. You clearly haven’t read it however. My guess is you simply couldn’t be bothered (so far your track record on that isn’t so good) because it wasn’t your intention, was it?

    I’ll enter a defence on you behalf, but I must advise, it’s a rather lame cover: Your honour, he protests “he wasn’t able to!”.

    You never even tired.

    I’ll criticise the J7T gang and anyone else that makes sneering, illegitimate, underhand, hypocritical and repeatedly knowing false claims, and I’ll do it until the cows come home, with a passion. I will also praise their excellent analysis (which is usually personal attack free – yes, they really can and do do it) I still endorse their overall objective: that the events of 7/7 to enter the public domain, and I presume, any consequential legal action stemming from that, but I doubt they (and you) would apply that objective should the finger of guilt point towards Israyhell”

    I will also applaud Tom Secker and others worthy efforts in this area.

    Don’t worry, it’s OK if your bipolarity means you will never quite fathom my position.

  16. 16 IH8UM8 September 3, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    “You never even tired.”

    I did grow weary, yes. I fathomed you pretty damn quick and the fact that you have fantasies about fingering Israeli citizens.

  17. 17 lwtc247 September 4, 2011 at 2:07 am

    Ha ha! Nice one :)
    Pity your cutting wit isn’t followed with substantiation of your earlier incorrect statements, or of anything about what Tom Secker said in either interview or of the double standards from the J7T gang.

  18. 18 IH8UM8 September 4, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Pity your over-the-top foolishness allows a free pass for the Israelis to do what they like in Palestine as long as you can use them as an imaginary bogeyman in London.

  19. 19 lwtc247 September 4, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    My belief that the Israyhell has connections to 7/7 and that those connections should be thoroughly and publicly investigated, and that I am personally suspicious that they are involved with it’s execution and subsequent cover-up/obfuscation, doesn’t give anything like a ‘free pass’ to what the do in Palestine. What an absurd proposition.

    What is the basis for you thinking there they are not involved? Why don’t you try and discuss it in a rational informative way?

  20. 20 IH8UM8 September 4, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    I don’t investigate people’s beliefs. My opinions are neither here nor there, show me some evidence.

  21. 21 lwtc247 September 4, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    The evidence…
    Surely one important point – and I’m pretty sure you know this – about 7/7 is there is virtually no evidence, and I think Tom says that in one of his interviews, which you watched, yes? The Israyhelli warnings as reported by Nafeez Ahmad in his book “The London Bombings” would be a good start.

    So you will only believe something about 7/7 if you have evidence, meaning you reject the tried and tested standard ‘lead’ methodology of pursuing an investigation. OK, fair enough, that’s your choice, but it seems you are ruing out any chance of Israyhell being involved. That’s inconsistent and unsustainable, a gaping flaw – what J7T suffers from.

    J7T who don’t know the how/why and who of 7/7, but they somehow know Israyhell isn’t involved.

    I note you still don’t discuss anything of the points I made regarding Tom’s interview. You aren’t going to are you?

    • 22 IH8UM8 September 4, 2011 at 4:29 pm

      No.

      Put it this way, if there was israeli involvement (apart from the woman killed), which I have no idea whether there was or not, your hysterical propaganda would actually be assisting them in getting away with it. Ever thought of yourself as a useful idiot for the fake zion?

  22. 23 lwtc247 September 4, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    “No.” – Thought not.
    It was quite plain why you came here.

  23. 24 lwtc247 September 4, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    The fake Zion… what ever do you mean?

  24. 25 IH8UM8 September 4, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    It was quite plain, unlike your outpourings. I notice you always make sure to use a capital z.

  25. 26 lwtc247 September 5, 2011 at 12:06 am

    You have not added once morsel of informed discussion to this post..

  26. 27 Elias Davidsson September 27, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Whether the “State” is merely peddling its own official conspiracy theory or also promoting, discreetly, various red herring theories for the consumption of the alternatives, in both cases we it is state authorities engaging in criminal deception of the public. Forensically, it is important to know the exact facts. Politically, it is not important to know the details of this criminal deception, nor whether some of the theories are deliberately disseminated as red herrings. The fact that the state has engaged and continues to engage in such deceptions is sufficient to treat those who participate in the deception as accomplices in a war against the population. These individuals are funded by our taxes. The public should demand their immediate removal, no questions asked. There is no need for trials. The public is the sovereign and is entitled to demand the removal of representatives or state officials who for some reason or other are not trustworthy. It is a waste of political time to try to find all the pieces of the puzzle. First, we have no access to the data, because public officials hide the date or have it destroyed. Second, time is important, because each day the deceivers are in power, they continue to steal and murder. We cannot afford to wait until an ultimate proof is found how things were done and what was the hierarchy of the deceivers. When states systematically deceive their populations, they should be know that they sign their death sentences as representatives of the people. And that should be the rallying message, rather than calling for an investigation. The situation today requires from us to organize and strive for a general strike, the goal of which should the establishment of a true and accountable democratic order that respects international law, human rights and where state officials are legally and criminally liable to act in good faith for the good of the people.

  27. 29 lwtc247 September 27, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    @ Elias

    “Politically, it is not important to know the details of this criminal deception” – I disagree. It’s good to know ALL aspects of it. There is nothing to ‘either/or’ here.
    Tom Secker mentions red herrings a fair bit (e.g. his 24th Sept interview) and he could well be right on a lot of it. The state certainly does appear to be involved in 7/7 and to set red herrings is, I guess, to be expected. To cast out the truth dressed as a red herring and controlled opposition is something one should be wary of also.

    “The public is the sovereign” – Some think they should be (according to the democracy fable), but the reality is that they are anything but. Besides, the horrible kween (illegitimately)claims sovereignty.

    “The fact that the state has engaged and continues to engage in such deceptions is sufficient to treat those who participate in the deception as accomplices in a war against the population.” I disagree. Not all red herrings are known, few if any red herrings are proved to be so. Such a denouncement should only apply to those propagating the deception deliberately. what’s your opinion of the Jaguar car$? Is that a red herring? Only a revolution will overthrow the state, a la France?

    “First, we have no access to the data” – I don’t think anyone can, the State/perpetrators are seeing to that, and any actual data will probably filter through ‘useful channels’ first, to further obfuscate.

    “Second, time is important” _ I agree, that is I did agree. I’m beginning to think the it’s already too late.

    “they should be know that they sign their death sentences as representatives of the people. And that should be the rallying message, rather than calling for an investigation.” – I do n’t feel cold towards that statement.

    “The situation today requires from us to organize and strive for a general strike, ” – and I positively warm to that. Short of Madame guillotine, the only ‘sit-up-and-pay-attention’ act that people can do is economic. Strike, don’t use banks for deposits (withdraw salary etc immediately after it gets paid in), don’t take bank loans, and avoid credit cards. But not enough people would do this. Yes, it is that bad!

    Perhaps I am weary of all this, but I find your idealism and spirit encouraging.


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