Archive for the 'religion' Category

Science of the gaps – Richard Dawkins debating John Lennox

a) Personal prologue
b) Main post

 

Personal prologue

I believe in God. I never used to. Being raised in ‘a kind of’ Christian environment, there was usually a latent background of God, e.g. walking home I’d pass a few churches or the Christmas TV programs etc. Somhow, probably because of the story of Adam, who in my mind, was a declaration that a ‘modern man’ was the first man – very much like we are today, hence, if man came from ape-like ancestors, then that would disqualify the notion of God.

Looking back, all things considered, I’m ashamed that I came to such an ultimate conclusion so hastily, on something which has the most enormous implications for us as a species, and deserves deep study in many fields. Really, I was armed with only a minuscule level of knowledge, and sadly I was far too accepting of the information that was coming my way; I didn’t scrutinise it, I didn’t look for alternative explanations. Because of that I must have been a simple level “darwinian atheist” from the ages of about 14 to 21.

Perhaps my personal shame is a bit harsh given my youthful years, but I was “convinced” it was true and naturally I would promote such a stance when in discussion/debate about it.

Since then, I came across the Qur’an, which tells of how Isa (Jesus) a.s. was raised up from the eyes of man. The utter confidence of that statement {please read it for yourself in the Qur’an – or if you can’t read Arabic, even an English translation retains much of its power} rocked me and it just seemed that what I was reading was the truth,
so how could I deny it?

Atheists may say I was simply swapping my simple level “Darwinian atheist” mindset for a similarly simple level “God exists” mindset instead, and other atheists may also say my personally amazing experience and feelings on reading the Qur’an are   laughable. I would appeal to those who may be rofl right now to try and recall something from their own lives that fundamentally changed their perspectives. I’m sure many could recall such a thing and hence I’m sure you will better appreciate my experience on
reading the Qur’an.

I have since invested much time in gaining a much greater understanding of the God question and
try to familiarise myself on the near endless debate about whether God exists or not. Yes, I have a bias
towards God, but atheists has a bias against God, so I guess that’s fair and square.

All this means I have come across the works of Richard Dawkins.

Main post

I’m referring to this: Lennox Vs. Dawkins Debate – Has Science Buried God

21:03 – 31:29

[P.S. Dawkins made an error in the debate saying no to ‘things going from simple to complex’, it’s obvious he wanted to to say no to things starting from complex (i.e. God)]
In my pursuit of the Gods existence debate, I was watching Lennox Vs. Dawkins Debate – Has Science Buried God.

I’m quite familiar with Dawkins’s arguments now. Dawkins puts scorn on religious people who, Dawkins says(!), say ‘we don’t know what that phenomenon is’ therefore God did it, i.e. God fills the gaps of our ignorance. Like much of what Dawkins says, it’s very sweeping and unfair in that it doesn’t acknowledge the great number of God believing scientists who do undertake the challenge at revealing aspects of what we don’t understand. Such as the Mathematician Lennox. I am what they would call a ‘scientist’ so I know this – I see it. But Lennox did a very interesting thing. He took Dawkins up on this issue (and Lennox knows perfectly well that Dawkins is very experienced in discussing) but he turned it around.
Dawkins was saying things have to go from simple to complex and that simplicity, in his eyes, negates the need for a complex God. Dawkins protests a complex God needs explanation, and an explanation as to where that God came from.

Typical Dawkins. He attaches onto God the very thing that would nullify God. A good definition of God is ‘that which has not been created’. It’s probably his greatest trick and is self-negating. The trouble is the closer you get to the ‘instant’ of the bog bang, which I think it’s fair to say almost everyone is (currently) at ease with about being how the physical Universe came into being, then it actually gets more and more complex.

Dawkins’ second trick is to simply call it simple. Well I’m sorry, I don’t buy that. I think Dawkins is actually saying the SIMPLIFIED COMPUTER MODELS used to try and simulate the EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE at some time when the universal physical constants stabilised may be regarded as simple, but even then, they surely cannot be simple in physical actuality due to anti matter and dark matter, the latter of which is said by many scientists that Dawkins would be happy to stand along side himself to account for most of the mass and therefore energy of the universe, and these are very poorly understood indeed, hence any simple model is surely wholly inaccurate, causing another major stumbling block to Dawkins on this issue.

Anyway, He says natural, blind unthinking natural selection caused the biological complexity we have today, so things went from simple (Dawkins’s ‘simple’ remember!) to complex, hence God doesn’t need explaining. But Lennox correctly drew reference to two utterly complex issues, the “pre-Dawkinist simple” beginning of the universe [my words not Lennox’s] and the origin of biological life.

It is at this point when Dawkins impales himself completely on his own sword. He says We don’t know these things yet, but we know there will be a Darwinian explanation to it. What Dawkins has done is to use a ‘Science of the gaps’ approach to it. He has blind faith that there will be a simple [it HAS to be simple – that’s a main theme for Dawkins] explanation. But any fair minded person will surely agree, from primordial soup to life today or from a ‘rugby ball’ sized ‘thing’ (from which the Universe too shape) is of course utterly complicated.

Sadly Lennox doesn’t quite navigate as well to expose this as I have tried to do above, but of course, a face to face debate is completely different from a prose based composition like this.

I also liked Lennox’s previous point about consciousness, which Dawkins took up to talk about avoiding a rock or not jumping off a cliff. Lennox is saying reductionism cannot explain consciousness (at least as far as best we know today). there is no rational way in which the reduced set of atoms and molecules can have consciousness. There has to be a way in which the structure of those atoms and molecules can store information and be able to interpret that information.
This is what separates the living (in a bio-physological sense) from the non-living*. That requires a consciousness which surely cannot be explained by step-wise selection or even by the instantaneous crossing of a hugely significant feature (which would in any case require quite a lot of genetic information to encode and endow inheritance).
Lennox called this a ‘language‘ which indicates the pre-existence of a ‘mind‘. Dawkins quickly went away from this point.

It is interesting that when Lennox rather traps himself and puts himself on the back-foot having to explain the mind of God. Dawkins rightly gets a stronger line of argument, but this is an unfair advantage to Dawkins because if there was a God, it’ is inescapably impossible to explain the word of God. Even on a human level success at explaining the means and motives of other humans often fails. How can we with a lifespan of about 80 years, a mind the size of a honeydew melon and primarily only input/output/process information one ‘channel’ at any one instance ultimately explain anything?

* non-living – actually Islam mentions rocks, which are considered non-living, as talking in some future event. This I would say, should encourage you to think there is a very different kind of ‘living’which the ‘non-living’ have access. If that’s a struggle for you, just remember djinn and Angels. Of course, the realm of God is beyond us. Dawkins protests he would/could not do science if this ‘magic’ as he pejoratively calls it interfered with science, as if God is likely to say intermittently hide then re-reveal a chromosome for example – He’s trying to cast God in a dark light. And if Dawkins was to ‘give up’ what happened to his accusations of ‘cop out’ and ‘mental lazyness’ etc

The mind consciousness/meaning part resurfaces at 49:57

At the end, I find it interesting, perhaps telling, that Lennox thanks Dawkins; “Thanks Richard” says Lennox, yet all Dawkins does is acknowledge it with a ‘mouth open and close to smile’ kind of thing. Interesting having just heard what the human moral behavioural aspect of the debate.

I believe I’m so familiar with Dawkins’s stuff that I see many many holes in it.

It’s interesting that I can’t find Dawkins debating an intelligent Muslim scholar experienced/familiar with the ‘Western’ style of this debate.
Next up (additions to this post outstanding) is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx0CXmagQu0 (which I notive Atkins also attributes a derogatory term of lazyness to the ‘design’ issue)

 

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Women and Islam

I came across this:

First of all I am surprised the BBZ broadcasted this. Perhaps they felt forced to give a morsel against the countless hours of pro-Zionism propaganda they stream out. Anyway, the short clip was quite interesting.

Often on western media, coincidence strikes with great regularity when speakers with ‘Islamic connections’ talk about it in a negative light (e.g. Tarek Fatah, Asra Nomani, Irshad Manji, Hirsi Ali), usually offering ‘media portrayals of Muslims’ or the bad non-Islamic acts of Muslims as ‘evidence’.

Here, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown (YAB) seems to take on the part, but the refreshing thing is to see Kristiane Backer actually talk FIRST HAND (and not via third party – a la YAB – who is supposedly relaying some very peculiar things people have said to her in their written communications to her) about the inner peace that Islam has brought, i.e. talking about it in a positive sense.

It’s amusing to see the female journo ask Kristiane that surely “she [KB] misses some of the freedoms” showing she is utterly clueless as to what Islam is or means to people.

YAB totally miss the point, quelle surprize, e.g. apparently believing women only come to Islam because they want rules. e.g. she focuses on women asking about LOLing and clapping after a show. I would say these women are asking this question because they have accepted Islam and THEREFORE they want to follow (if any) the correct way, or best way of behaving. YAB is making it appear that women just want rules and THEREFORE came to Islam for that. YAB’s view suggests a dead or certainly soundly sleeping heart. She also is portraying women who embrace Islam simply because of some temporary feeling. Dear oh dear. Kristiane Backer does very well to correct YAB’s incorrect portrayal of it as being an ‘escape’. Islam OFFERS the escape once Islam is accepted. A-B is getting the order of it wrong. Backer does look at it from a heart prospective but YAB from a negative ‘strictness’ regime. I find it extremely hard to believe an actual Muslim convert would soon after his conversion trumpeting, as YAB cast it, about chastising his wife.

Also, YAB opens up another flank raising the yet another negativism about the Hijab and make-up, when nobody had made any mention of it thus far.

In short, we have a demonstration of someone who seems to genuinely love Islam and someone who we actually puts Islam in a bad light. The latter was expected, the former welcomed.

Actually Revery is a better word than convert as we are Muslims before we are born. ‘Convrts’ are just getting back to their roots.

P.S. I think Gita Sahgal (the atheist from a Hindu background) is another Irshad Manji type. In just a few seconds she goes from talking about Muslim coverts to Islam and then to repression then to repression of women and then to the Taliban in just 20 seconds!!!! PHEW! She honestly believes there is a link to converts and those falling into the clutches of the Taliban. Dear Lord! Incredible and what rally takes the cake is she attributes most of the civilian casualties in Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Bet her chances of future western media appearance paint a bright and rosy financial future.

Dear oh dear.

Christmas in Hedonia – Reflections of a Muslim

Over Christmas, I’m spending some time in Hedonia. Hedonia is the capital of Hedonism – the place where desires are fulfilled. Actually to be more accurate, there are a few Hendonias, I just happen to be staying in one of them.

Well today is Christmas and someone I know treated me to a buffet meal of excellent cuisine (an eat all you want type affair).

There were some signs of Christmas around the place, some party poppers (a relatively new phenomenon of which the marketing men must be most proud), some Christmassy decorations, a few ‘Seasons Greetings’ type thingies stuck on the walls, and some dude dressed up as Santa, handing out some toys (Made in China) and there was the usual ‘leisure facility’ band singing some Christmas type songs.

While I was eating – admittedly pretty far beyond my means, the band started singing some Christmas song containing a repeated line saying something like ‘let us remember his [Jesus’] name’. Consciously thinking bout the environment, I don’t think a single person was remembering his name let alone his message/ the meaning of his life. Jesus was relegated to an amateur entertainment act; background music which that nobody was really listening to.

And it was mighty sad indeed.

The VERY last of the prophets to come (on this earth) which will mark an unprecedented and most tumultuous period of man, is being treated as an irrelevance where even the tanned Santa had more of peoples life-force attention devoted to him.

Well I was in Hedonia. What did I expect !?

This particular Hedonia is in a Muslim County, where it seems not only were the White foreign, presumed Christian tourist contingent ignoring Jesus, but the Muslims ignored him even more! I’ve written an article on Muslims attitudes to Jesus before, so I won’t repeat it, but it is very sad indeed to see the meaning of Christmas ‘doubly’ ignored.

But even in the UK branch of Hedonia, The ‘new agers’ and ‘agnostic spiritualists’ seemed to have muscled their way into Christmas too, once more elbowing out Jesus and the whole meaning of his life (and meaning of his life to come once he returns), replacing it with the ‘Good will to man’ and New Years salutations, you know, those greetings about which any thoughts/practicality/actions in that direction expire the moment the end of the catchphrase is uttered.

Earlier in the day, the ‘body beautifuls’ were parading around, leaving very little to the imagination. I am sure some of them were deliberately showing off, their impossible glossy magazine figures which surely were an advert about them that their body is their temple and that their body shape defined/provided them with their lifestyle. Yip, when I saw these Nefertiti’s I did averting my eyes, which was pretty tricky, not just because the female of the species is my strongest kind of allure, but seemingly, it was impossible to establish a new line-of-sight without some other body beautiful being in the way! – well, a bit like that anyway. Before I head off on a tangent, I was just looking at all those people and saw them standing virtually completely isolated from the purpose of their lives (i.e. to worship God). There were hundreds of them just focusing on ‘having a good time’, people for whom their holiday was an opportunity to achieve their pinnacle of joy. It was of course a joy firmly routed in the dhunya (this world) and I guessed their thought could never possibly hope to conceive of anything other than this world – or rather, that’s how I thought of them at the time anyway.

And please don’t write in saying Jesus wasn’t born on 25th December so Christmas is phoney anyway, because that’s utterly irrelevant to what I am talking about i.e. Christmas (as I have already alluded to) is about the actual significance and meaning of Jesus’ life.

I am in Hedonia(major) for a purpose and will shortly leave and head back to Hedonia(minor)

It’s been a interesting and sad day, and I know as part of Hedonia I am contributing to it in some kind of indefinable way.

Good day, and have a religious Christmas.

lwtc247

Who wants to live forever?

I’ve recently had some discussion of this question.

Yes, it’s an age old question and one that you yourself have probably had a number of past discussions on. Personally, I sometimes revisit these kinds of questions, because as I advance in years, I gain different perspectives as do the generally ageing people around me which opens up a new avenues for stimulating contemplation.

Well, either that or I’ve simply forgotten!

Re: older minds giving more productive discussions: It does take some time to get ‘clued up’ on such matters hence youthful thinking can, in the main, appear as ‘has been‘ or unproductive thinking, reinventing the wheel if you like, so perhaps older more seasoned and experienced minds are becoming more valuable to me. Yet at the same time, as the video below will point out, a conversation between a) Aubrey de Grey (formerly of Cambridge) with and Sherwin B. Nuland of Yale b) Aubrey de Grey with Martin Raff of UCL, seems ‘devoid of any possible intellectual divide based on youth’, but that’s because I’m talking about people from all different walks of life and not within scientific specialisation.

The main point of this post is to ask you if you would want to live forever and if yes or no, your reasons why, but that question rapidly diverts onto the question of can death be cheated, within which I make some assumptions:

1) The vast majority of those who believe in God accept (or will one day accept) death

2) Those who do not believe in God will seek ways to cheat death.
http://w   ww.youtube.com/watch?v=pxYTiAbEASo

SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE

Kev Boyle made a post {London Performance at Beijing Olympics Decoded } featuring a video of the end of the 2008 Chinese Olympics in which the London Bus ‘exploded’ in a very possible occult ceremony involving Jimmy Page, guitarist of Led Zepplin playing(faking?) the well known Zepplin song ‘Whole Lotta Love”.

Kev says

“I also wondered at the choice of famous Satanist Jimmy Page to front the music.”

I’ve heard stories about rock bands (Zepp. inc.) that they are involved in Satanism, e.g. have satantic messages when played backwards and use of occult symbols etc. But Page…

Iis/was Jimmy Page involved in it? or perhaps one could ask Is Page a ‘practising’ Satanist?

I’m interested in finding out, ‘cos I love Pages’ guitar style – I discovered an similar ‘Dagdad’ style myself when younger, and I’ve tried to play a few Page riffs etc in the past (I’ve not played for a long time however). If he is a Satanist, I don’t really want to listen or play his music because I believe without doubt that there is power in music (and symbols – don’t believe  me? then try reading a book!).

A quick search on the internet strongly suggests he is quite knowledgeable about it, but is he a ‘real’ satanist or just a curious researcher/onlooker? It’s hard to say. In trying to find a personally satisfying answer to whether he is or not.

In a quick attempt to find aout, I came across this which I think some of the people who drop by here would find interesting.

SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE (14 part documentary)

From what I’ve seen so far, it’s tying up quite a few loose ends, even if some of the connections are a bit weak, they all ‘come together’ so to speak to support the overall thesis which cannot be so easily dismissed.

Dear white Europeans

“Dear white Europeans, please come out in mass protests condemning the terrorist attack in Oslo, don’t be silent, the moderates amongst you must reject him. If you don’t, how do we know you don’t all agree?”

Craig Murray also put up a good post entitled “Islamophobia Run Wild” about the BBC (and other Corporate MSM) on this terrorist attack.-

 

Jesus / Isa – alahi salam

On occasions, I feel Muslims ‘lose’ something when it comes to religion. I am speaking about the second last prophet Jesus or Isa (E-sa) peace be upon him.

Muslims believe that Christianity, as we know it today, and its history, has suffered a corruption of Jesus’ (pbuh) message. They believe this is one reason why the had the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) whose recitation of Divine revelation is encoded in the Qur’an, whose message today is the same as what it was almost 1400 years ago, and is protected so by God.

Why ‘bother’ with what is said of Jesus (pbuh) then when a particular issue may contain distortiortions and errors?

Indeed, I was never able to really understand why what I’ve always thought were Christians discussing the New Testament, identified the books of the apostles as having been written some 50,60,70,80,90 or so years after the ‘death’ of Jesus (pbuh) yet they never seemed concerned with that to me seemed like that very time sequence suggesting that in there weren’t actually written by the apostles. I can’t understand how an apostle who was x+50, x+60, x+70… years old (where x=their age while at the last day of of Jesus) could himself have written it, or even if he did write it, how could such writings be accurate. I know this issue isn’t ‘new’ and OK, the Grace of God could have made these things happen, but I don’t think there is any evidence or indeed, any claim that that is indeed the case. For some time now, I’ve held the assumption that the books of the apostles were ‘ghost’ written on behalf  of the words/techings of the apostles, but again, I’ve never seen any claim of this by the Church.

In addition to the above oddities, that the Church – a still generally beneficial force in society, despite various corruptions – then allowed usury,causing Christians to thereafter adopt, is something unless I am mistaken, which Jesus (pbuh) abhored [Note: Some Muslims also practice usury, is a part of which is in something they call Riba, a sin of such seriousness that it invites Gods War against you]. The acceptance/normalisation of usury struck a severe blow to Christianity from which it argueably has never recovered, and doubtless, has aided the huge fall from grace as a faith in the eyes of some Muslims.

And in recent times we the Judeo-Christian allaince when for millenia, generally Christians viewed Jews in similiar, yet milder way, from how Jews viewed Christains.

All of which have contributed to Muslims distancing themselves from the Christian faith.

In recent years, I have come across people who call themselves Christians but don’t seem to cede to the Church, instead, believing in Christianity according to their own analysis and understanding, and of the significance of Jesus. [These people could always have existed, perhaps it’s just my age, exposure and social cirles that is makeing them more visible to me]. Personally, what they are doing appeals to me [As it is increasingly doing so in the disorganised ‘organised religion stricture’ of Islam. I think these Christians are able to ‘see’ some fictions propagates by the Church. However, they still seem likely to adopt other distortions about Jesus – like some indulging the usurers [Muslims too remember!] and not following Jewish custom e.g. Sabbath, circumcision, eating Kosher and so on. But I don’t think in this say any age that anyone is pure – that goes for Muslims too.

My general opinion of Muslims is that they tend to take on a facile view of Christianity and don’t see those ‘independent’  Christians mentioned just above, and from my experience of these people, they are very amicable and  have significant overlap with Muslim perspectives and teachings [Not really surprisin]. Thin thoughts of Muslims about their Christian counterparts – most significantly in Muslim dominated populations – unnecessarily widens the gap between them, and that’s a shame.

A similar thing – primarily form distortions embedded in their religions – exists with (real) Jewish-Christian and Jewish-Muslim relations, but I’d say the philosophical gap between Jews and Christians as well as Jews and Muslims is greater than that of Christians and Muslims.

Jesus (pbuh) does appear in the Qur’an and in the saying of the last Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Despite the possible explanations as to why above, it’s a pity and wonder why Muslims gove so little attention to Jesus’ story (pbuh), but other Prophets like Ismail (so called ‘Father of the Arabs’) and Moses and Abraham are given more (IMO) significance.

I get the feeling that this may be because: If an increase in discussions by Muslims of Jesus (pbuh) were to take place, it would be percieved as “being Christian”. To me, that’s a real shame, especially when one thinks about Jesus (pbuh) and his influence on the world today [I can’t here reference Paul / Saul of Tarsus, regarded as being the one to ‘establish/grow’ the religion of Christianity, being beyond the scope of this post]. After (possibly) Muhammad, the next most Influential man influencing the world today is Jesus (peace and blessings be to both of them), yet Muslims largely ‘whitewash’ him.

Frankly, it’s hard to accept the Church’s distortions and corruptions are a good enough reason for any ‘whitewashing’ of Jesus, and actually I don’t think Muslims have ever spent much thought at all as to how to weigh-up/assess Jesus’s role in their lives. That the religion of Islam was deemed to be completed very shortly before the death of Muhammad (saw) seems to make some think that Islam is all the need at the cost of looking for overlap with their Christian brothers.

To me, the influence of Jesus across the world (even when one factors in a corrupt Church) is testament that what this man did and said is of the most extraordinary power and significance. It’s amazing that the corruptions and distortions piled upon Jesus are incapable of destroying the way he is revered, and I don’t think he is revered because of those distortions.

Jesus performed miracles. As far as I know, Muhammad (saw) didn’t – although he did go on a miraculous journey – Al-Isra and Al-Miraj. I think Jesus was able to perform miracles so that people had no excuse not to fast-track themselves to belief in God, perhaps a sign that Jesus’ task was much more of a challenge than what Muhammad (saw) faced [It must be noted that Muhammad (saw) did have a very rough time himself in his duty as a Prophet; It wasn’t easy by any means]. The miracle worker was clearly special and should be listened to.

Why is it said that Allah(SWT) commands that the Muslims do not make judgements as to the fate of the people of the book? Some, in an attempt to shy away from this, many ask ‘which book?’ to which I propose, the bible at the time of Muhammads Divine revelations had not changed significantly from that time onwards. It makes more sense to think God was referring to the Divine scriptures, the ‘books’, at the time of revelation onwards which I’d say, works its way down to the Christians and Indeed Jews of  today. It also seems straightforward to think it’s the uncorrupted elements of those scriptures which still maintain a tie of Christians and Jews to God. Yet, some Muslims seem ‘quite edgy’ about all this.

When Muslims were being persecuted, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) sent some Muslims into Christian lands (Abyssinia) for refuge. They were protected. Isn’t this simple aspect of the history of Islam in itself a strong indication of the natural affinity of Christians and Muslims [And that Jews were given refuge in Muslim Arab lands also indicative of something?]

As I begin to end this post, hopefully my Muslim readers will not succumb to such instant dismissal from what’s said above and will consider these questions:-

1) Why is it Jesus/Isa (peace be upon him) that will return to ultimately re-establish mans solid relationship to God in the hearts of ALL mankind?

2) Why is it said that Muhammad (saw) is calimed to have said that of all the prophets, Jesus had a special place in the Prophets heart ? (I’m paraphrasing)

3) Aren’t many Muslims themselves already following distortions/corrutions in disorganised Islam? – Remember about the ‘sects’ within Isla, yet on the whole, we don’ really reject other Muslims, so why (when it happens) do we reject Christians?

4) Even some atheists brought up in Christian environments, and hence take some ‘Christian stuff’ on board, can be a fine example of a free and moral upstanding people. For some reason, Rodney Shakespeare comes to mind.

5) When Jesus (pbuh) dies, who will be be buried next to?

.

To some Muslims, they will instigate a mind-block about what is written here. They will dismiss it, believing it may ‘rock their Islamic’ faith, when actually I am trying to show them on the contrary, their faith can be strengthened. They may think it’s an attempt to ‘convert them the Christianity’. It most certainly isn’t, and if you thought as much, I suspect you ave a significant flaw in your understanding of Islam [I don’t pretend amateur ‘Muslim me’ is immune].

I believe that what I have written here is important and should be thought about and if what I say is wrong, then only by undertaking honest and thoughtful analysis of what I say will show that to be wrong.


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BooK: The Hand of Iblis. Dr Omar Zaid M.D.

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Recommended book: 3rd edition of Terror on the Tube – Behind the Veil of 7-7, An Investigation by Nick Kollerstrom:

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JUST:

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